Net Neutrality Question

Since today is the "big day", Just have a question about net neutrality to further my understanding of the issue.

If NN rules were not enforced until 2015, why is repealing these rules supposedly the "end of internet as we know it"?  We all had basically the same internet before 2015.  

What are the worst case scenarios moving forward, and how come we did not see these senarios in the past?
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JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Ending Net Neutrality does NOT end Internet.  That was just FUD.

The worst case scenario is more FUD.

ISP's will not have to provide services to competitors at low cost / margin and can raise their rates. So the cost of your internet may possibly go up.

All the "sky is falling" commentary was just FUD.
It isn't then end, but we have two competing interest groups:
1 - ISP's - they want to be able to run their networks w/ limited gov interference. They also want to be able to charge services (think NetFlix, Hulu, Amazon Prime for example) that require excessive bandwidth, especially peered bandwidth, from third parties,  for their services to make it to the end customer. ISP's pay alot of money to be able to have enough bandwidth beyond their own networks in order to deliver these services. Some ISP's want these content providers to plant hubs within their networks, so they don't have to pay these huge peering fees.
2- The aforementioned content providers like NetFlix, Hulu, FB, Amazon Prime and anyone else whose business model is built on delivering high bandwidth content and NOT having to pay transport to get it to their customers. Of course they want rules saying they don't have to pay to get their product to the customers. Everyone would love to offer "free delivery" that's actually free. of course, someone will be paying it - every ISP customer - that cost gets spread amongst all clients, even those who don't have netflix (for example.)

Then you have the screaming "free lunch" crowd. These are the ones crying that they don't want netflix going away. Well, if NN is vacated, NetFlix won't go away, rather they'd potentially have to charge their customers more money in order to pay the ISP's to deliver their content (or they'd have to build distribution nodes within Comcast, Spectrum, ATT, whoever) so that peering fees wouldn't apply to that traffic within their networks. I'm sure others can explain it better, and there is merit for/against NN, but these 2 points of view are where the public largely is now IMO.
Scott CSenior EngineerCommented:
FUD = Fear Uncertainty Disinformation
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tike55Author Commented:
Thanks guys, this is great.  

I guess some follow up question (s):

1) Why didn't ISPs charge more before 2015?

2) My biggest concern is that repealing NN will hinder tech innovation.  Could repealing NN hinder new tech startup efforts?  (If new startups don't have the same access/resources as the big companies?)
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
That depends entirely on the ISP and not laws or regulations
tike55Author Commented:
Hi John,
which follow up question was your last comment pertaining to?
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
My answer was for #1 (why didn't ISP's charge more in earlier years) . Sorry I was not more clear.

Could repealing NN hinder new tech startup efforts?   <-- Only ISP start ups, not other kind of tech startups that a making products for sale.
Net neutrality means government control of the internet rather than business control. Like many such systems, it will mean politicization of the system and bureaucratic delays and over control.  Government control will also likely stifle innovation and there doesn't appear to be any great need for it. The current state of the internet with all its powers and features developed without any significant government help.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
I just read an article in ZDNet on NN and the author said I had written "... FUD ..."  and now recant that and say there may be an issue. As I read down, the article said what I said further back here. Some little internet shop wants to sell Internet for $10 per month. To do this, they must get bandwidth and main cabling to carry the traffic from a large ISP Supplier at their (large ISP) cost. That is what NN enforced.

Now gone, so also the $10 per month supplier is gone. That may hurt low income families. Not clear at this point.
David Johnson, CD, MVPOwnerCommented:
I love the argument that Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime don't pay for their content to be delivered.. yes, Verizon/Comcast they do pay their ISP (i.e. Level 3) for every tit transmitted. They just don't pay you though.. Too bad, so sad.  your subscribers that want one of the aforementioned products pay you and will pay you for unlimited internet so they don't get hit with overage costs and will pay for a faster connection so they can have a better experience.  If it wasn't for Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, Facebook and other rich content providers we might be happy to have 1.5Mbps Internet speeds @ $15 /month or even go back to 56Kbps dial up  The people also pay a subscription to the aforementioned services that pays for their costs and so they can pay their (the content providers) internet usage and bandwidth fees to their ISP's.

The problem that I see in the US is that the major ISP's (Comcast/Verizon/Time warner) are also content providers. So they are in direct competition with Internet Content Providers. Big business wins again against you the consumers.
Re David Johnson - Part of my post was meant to enlighten folks to the fact that the ISP's have to pay the the Level 3's of the world more in order to have that additional bandwidth outside of their networks in order to handle the load - much of which is streaming media coming from where? While a netflix may pay level 3 for getting data out, the ISP still has to pay to have enough pipe to get it onto their own networks.

It sure doesn't help that, as you point out, the major ISP's also have their own content that they'd rather you consume - after all, it's something they can deliver free, on their pipes, so they profit more. They also don't have to spend extra to allow compeiting products in. A rule to not allow these media conglomerates to own/control transport companies might address much of this. Since these are conflicting interests and, on the face of it anyway, could be considered anti competitive. Would our bought and paid for Just Us system do anything w/ this? Doubtful.

There is probably a good anwer to all of this - maybe everyone pay their own way? Right now, we ALL pay for the transport, even if we don't watch these streaming services. That is the main problem imo - we're all subsidizing these services, regardless if we want to. This nuetral net just means we'll all pay a little more for internet so everyone who wants netflix can get it at $10/mo. instead of paying $12 or $15/mo for those who want it. Its not unlike the ACA - Everyone pay more so we can susidize the (outrageous) cost for a few.

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David Johnson, CD, MVPOwnerCommented:
Points Split
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Net Neutrality

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