Windows 10 Professional Drive/Folder Rights Issue

Windows 10 Professional went from blue screen with "DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION" to replaced motherboard and now the blue screen is gone, but the D drive "comes and goes" and folders and their contents either show as empty or won't let me edit/save any files within them.  The folders and D drive are fine when I boot in Safe Mode.

I have tried Diskpart and removing readonly on the drive and folder security settings to no avail.  I have installed much software on the D drive and to rebuild it would be a miserable option.

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAsked:
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McKnifeCommented:
Try that drive on another machine, first. It is a removable drive, right?
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Hi.  It's an SSD drive that is attached by slot to the motherboard.  Not really an option to move to another machine.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Very curious error - not one I've seen before so am interested in seeing the cause myself.

Some background info questions first.

I know you said it works fine in safe mode, which makes it even more confusing, but can you humour me by trying a "chkdsk /f" on the drive from an elevated command prompt? Any errors?

Have you tried taking ownership of the entire drive in Windows safe mode?

Before doing either of the above, I'd recommend taking an image backup of that drive if you don't already have one.
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McKnifeCommented:
Agreed, safe mode and also checkdisk or always good ideas. If those have been tried to no avail, you should also try and boot from windows setup and see if you can navigate through folders on the command line (get to a command shell by pressing shift F10 right at the language selection screen)).
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I did a run as admin on cmd and ran the chkdsk d: /f /r.  It ran for a while (I actually left the machine and came back to it later in the day) and also tried the same with sfc /scannow.

I have created a windows setup on a usb stick using media creation tool and am a bit nervous to run it as I don't want to reinstall and loose all the apps I have installed.

Regarding doing any backup (copies or running Macrium Reflect),  since some of the files / folders aren't accessible to me, either attempt fails as well.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
I have created a windows setup on a usb stick using media creation tool and am a bit nervous to run it as I don't want to reinstall and loose all the apps I have installed
Indeed. That's why I suggested making an image of the drive. I wouldn't be doing too much until you've got a fail safe backup.
Regarding doing any backup (copies or running Macrium Reflect),  since some of the files / folders aren't accessible to me, either attempt fails as well
Even if you boot into Macrium Reflect outside of Windows to create the Image? That should definitely work. It's been a while since I used Macrium Reflect, but does it have a sector by sector copy mode like Acronis True Image?

It takes a lot longer to image a drive that way, but you can create a backup of any drive that way, regardless of what's on it. Works in a similar way to the Clone Drive process, except saves to an image rather than another disk.

Also, if you prefer to work in the Windows GUI environment, you've stated that D drive functions correctly in Safe Mode. What if you booted into safe mode and then run Marcium Reflect to image the drive? You could confirm the integrity of the image by then viewing its contents within Windows once it's created. You should definitely get a backup done before moving forward Howard.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I'll try the safemode and see if I can back it up with Macrium Reflex and get back shortly.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
No luck.  Macrium failed.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Hmmm.. the fact that Macrium can't image the drive is indeed a concern. Let's go back a couple of steps.

This article at TheWindowsPlus indicates that a DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION can result from incompatible hardware, corrupt drivers, windows registry corrupt. I think that will need to be dealt with first. Try updating the hard disk drivers as a first step to see if they will update. Post back if you need instructions on doing that.

Actually, the article I've linked describes some pretty safe troubleshooting steps, as well as instructions on updating drivers, so rather than re-invent the wheel here, please read and try the steps there to see if any help. Post back for any specific questions. If still not resolved, we'll go through a logical troubleshooting exercise.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I have updated all drivers and the MB firmware.  My Dell Alienware Aurora R5 comes with a utility called SupportAssist which sniffs the machine and adds whatever is out of date.

Additionally,  I had the Dell support folks ensure that I do have all the latest drivers and bios.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
A weird issue (related?) is that in the device manager,  I don't have the node for IDE ATI/ATAPI Controllers.  I am running Windows 10 Pro.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
I don't have the node for IDE ATI/ATAPI Controllers
The plot thickens.

Can you post a screenshot of your Device Manager like this?

Device Manager Windows 10
That screenshot is from Windows 10 Pro too.

Expand your Disk Drives category for the screenshot as well, please.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Not at computer right now.  I’ll capture image in about an hour.

It will match yours with the node missing.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Here is is -
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nobusCommented:
what SSD mlodel is it?  you can run a diagnostic on it - or update the firmware - that helps in many cases
you can also do a system restore to a date all was ok
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I have the most current firmware on the SSD.  The model is CX2-GB1024-Q11 NVMe LITEON 1024GB.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Howard, I just had a thought for something to try given that you use a utility (SupportAssist) to update drivers. Go to your "Disk drives" category in Device Manager, expand and then try rolling back the drivers, assuming that they've been updated and the option is there. I'm not a fan of Driver utilities as they sometimes install drivers that cause issues. If you can roll back, restart and see if that's helped. You can always re-update the drivers again.

The other thing I'd also suggest you try is to run the Check for new Hardware wizard. Just right click the top result in device manager (DESKTOP-E5L6etc) and click "Scan for hardware changes" See if that makes your IDE ATA/ATAPI controller come back. I don't understand how it cant be there?! Also, click "View > Show hidden devices" in device manager to make sure it's not been hidden for some reason.

Please post back with the results of the above steps.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Andrew,  I did the scan for hardware changed from device manager and the "D" drive disappeared and now doesn't show in File Explorer.  I know from recent past experience a reboot will bring it back for displaying and malfunctioning purposes.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
This problem will almost certainly relate to hardware configuration. I'll need to do some research on this as I don't want to lead you through the troubleshooting steps I had in mind until this IDE/ATAPI issue is sorted out. I'm on my way out atm and will post back later. Hopefully, a couple of the others will chime in with some suggestions in the meantime.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Much appreciated.   It's late here in NYC, so I will look back again, probably in about 10 hours or so.  Have a good...
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nobusCommented:
your first step should be to take an image of the drive  -then you won't have to rebuild it; and can easily start from a newly formatted drive
is this disk connected to the mobo - or a controller board?
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Connected via small edge connector to MB.
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nobusCommented:
is this also the boot and OS drive?
when did it start happening? did you try  a system restores yet?
you did not answer that
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
@nobus - the question details the configuration. In a nutshell, this started happening for the author when the mainboard was replaced. He's been unable to image the drive as has been detailed early on and a system restore isn't an option.

Howard - we have the model number of your SSD drive, but can you also give us the model number of the new mainboard. I'm wondering if there isn't a compatibility issue at work here. If I'm right, not even a rebuild of the drive would help, so let's eliminate that first. Also, what was the old replaced mainboard's model number?

Given that Windows is operating happily with the new mainboard, another strong possibility is that the drive was damaged in some way during the mainboard swap. It doesn't make sense to me that Macrium Reflect was unable to image the drive because if the drive is working correctly (forget the file system aspect) then you should be able to image the drive regardless of any file system or format considerations of it. Do you have another computer you could test this drive with?

One final thing, in Windows 10, hit your Windows key and type "Computer Management", click the result and once up on screen, grab a snapshot of the "Disk Management" screen under the Storage category. Please post that screenshot here.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Andrew,

The system came as a package from DELL and worked fine.  So,  I don't think it could be a compatibility issue.

Here is the requested screen capture:
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Nobus,
D drive isn't the boot drive.  And I think the D drive issue existed before the MB swap.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Hi Howard,

Thank you for providing the requested capture. Everything looks correct to me which only adds to the mystery.

The missing "IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers" issue needs to be resolved before any further troubleshooting steps are worthwhile trying.

I also wouldn't rule out a compatibility problem just yet either. If the supplied replacement came from Dell, it could be the same mainboard, but a different revision number. It could also have a different BIOS version/setting.

Are you eligible for free support from Dell to try and sort that out? If not, the only thing I can think of to try is to re-flash the BIOS, but that can be risky if the system isn't protected by UPS in case of a power failure, so I'd advise caution there.

I've built a ton of systems over the last 20 years and have replaced mainboards as well, yet I've never struck a problem like this one. I'm betting that the problem has to do with the missing IDE controllers in Device Manager. Also the fact that D: drive disappears after a new hardware scan also points to a hardware incompatibility. Macrium being unable to image is another huge red flag.

See if other experts having any other ideas, but I'd be querying Dell about this problem as a first step.

I'm sorry I don't have any other suggestions other than the above at this time.

Regards, Andrew
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Andrew,

Two other pieces to the puzzle.  First is that the machine worked without an issue with the original MB with latest bios and suddenly started giving me the blue screen.  The missing IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers node in device manager was the situation before the MB swap.  The only thing noticeable after the MB swap (also with latest bios) was that the blue screens have not reoccurred and that the D drive has been acting flaky.

What did occur on the initial reboot with the new MB was that the OS popped up with a dialog stating that something had changed and that it needed my credentials to continue.  This dialog only occurred that once and on all subsequent restarts,  the PC does the usual asking for my user name and password on the screen (not a popup) after I press the enter key.  It almost seems like the rights have gotten mucked up.  

I especially feel that it's some kind of rights issue as when I safeboot,  the drive is there and all the folders and files behave as expected.'

(Thanks for adding DELL).
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
The missing IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers node in device manager was the situation before the MB swap
Ok, that changes my feeling a little. Though I've never noticed those controllers to be missing on other builds that I've done and I always made a point of always checking both Device Manager and Disk Management for any anomalies and running burin test software to stress all hardware before delivering to the customer.

If we are to assume that Mainboard and SSD HD are compatible and driver issues have been eliminated, then the next thing I would do is to try and take ownership of the entire drive. I'm still concerned you're working without an image backup though so don't go suing me if the following steps go belly up for any reason! :)

Take ownership of the drive in Windows

  • Open Windows Explorer and right click drive D:
  • Select Properties
  • Click Security Tab
  • Click Advanced button
  • Click Owner Tab
  • Click Edit button
  • Acknowledge Windows warning that you're about to do things that might destroy your computer ;-)
  • The current owner should be "SYSTEM"
  • Put a tick in "Replace owner on subcontainers and objects"
  • Change owner to your profile
  • Click Apply
  • Pray! :)
  • Restart and see if that's helped.

Note: The above will likely take a long time.  Again, I advise extreme caution without having a backup image of your D: drive. You'll be taking a big chance here so only do the above knowing you're doing so at your own risk.

Assuming you're still going to try it now, what was the result?
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
My D drive show the owner as "TrustedInstaller" ????

Also along with replace owner on subcontainers and objects there is another checkbox Replace all child object permission entries with inheritable permission entries from this object.  Do I need to check that too? (If I change owners...)

Perhaps I should revert it to SYSTEM.  I haven't a clue who/how TrustedInstaller is there.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Going ahead?  A gambling man eh? :)

My D drive show the owner as "TrustedInstaller" ????

I just checked my Windows 10 Pro VM and the C: drive is set to TrustedInstaller as well, but I don't have another drive for it to see if that's owned by System. I know that my Windows 7 Pro box with several internal drives has them owned by SYSTEM though.

Curious. Is SYSTEM available to you in the list of User Groups as a selection? If so, try setting to SYSTEM first, but don't include the tick to replace owner on subcontainers and objects just yet.

Note you're delving into unexplored territory here. I've never had to try the steps I've given you above to take ownership of an entire drive. This is making me a little nervous. It's easy to make these decisions when you have access to the box and a good backup to fall back on so I continue to advise caution.

Let me know what you decide to do and what happened.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
System is listed and I'm nervous about doing this as well.  If I could back the drive up, using Macrium or whatever first, it would be safer.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
If I could back the drive up, using Macrium or whatever first, it would be safer.

Absolutely agree and urge you to keep trying to make a backup!

Have you tried creating a Macrium Boot disk and using that to create a backup image? Outside of the Windows environment?

If not, perhaps give another solution a try, like Acronis True Image. The trial should allow you to create a boot cd to do a backup with. It doesn't make sense that Macrium can't create that image and the reason will have to do with the Windows problem if being run within Windows..
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Let me know how you go with further backup attempts Howard. I've been confident with every other suggestion I've given you, but taking ownership of an entire drive is not something I've had personal experience with. I know how to do it, but have never tried it so a backup is highly advisable. Last thing I want to do is get you in a worse position than you're already in.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I built a Macrium boot disk and will attempt to make the D drive image.  I'll let you know how that goes.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Great move on the backup attempt Howard.

Meanwhile, I've been doing some research on TurstedInstaller ownership and it appears that it is correct for the "C:" drive. I suspect it should be SYSTEM or even yourself for any additional drives.

Here's an article I just found which pretty much mirrors the instructions I gave.

http://www.techfleece.com/2011/05/15/how-to-take-ownership-of-files-or-folders-or-an-entire-hard-drive/

It shows a Windows 7 Ultimate example, but the process remains pretty much the same on Windows 10.

How did the backup go?
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Here's another example from a Microsoft Tech - Source -> Microsoft Community

Hello

Welcome to Microsoft answers

I would suggest you to modify the permission settings on the folder or the hard drive on which you are unable to create or modify or delete files.

Follow the below Steps:

1. Right click on the file or directory.
2. Click on “Properties” on the right click menu.
3. Click on “Security” tab.
4. Click on “Advanced” button at the bottom.
5. In Advanced Security Dialog window, click on “Owner” tab.
6. Here you will be able to see current owner (i.e. Trusted Installer).
7. To take ownership of the object, click on the Edit button. Give permission to UAC. Then highlight the user name in the “Change owner to” box that you want to assign as the owner for the object. Click “OK” to finish the process.
8. Back in Advanced Security Settings window, you will see the current owner has changed to the user you just selected.
9. Click “OK” button to exit this window.
10. Click “OK” again to exit completely from the Properties window.
11. Repeat step 1 to 4 to open the object’s Properties window again.
12. Back in object’s Properties window, click on Edit button, and confirm the UAC elevation request.
13. Highlight the Administrators in the “Group or user names” box. If the user ID or group that you want to manage the permissions for the object doesn’t exist, click on “Add” button, and type in the user name or group name desired into the “Enter object names to select (Can use Everyone as user Name)” box, and finish off by clicking on “OK”.
14. In the Permissions for Administrators box below (or any other user name or group name you chose), click on “Full Control” under the “Allow” column to assign full access rights control permissions to Administrators group.

Also refer this link
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Troubleshoot-access-denied-when-opening-files-or-folders

Hope it helps

Thanks and regards
Dinesh-Microsoft Support
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
How did the backup go Howard?

Assuming you now have a drive image, then you're in a good position. I'd now move forward with the permissions issue.

Also along with replace owner on subcontainers and objects there is another checkbox Replace all child object permission entries with inheritable permission entries from this object.  Do I need to check that too? (If I change owners...)

Yes, replace everything to your own profile name as owner.

SYSTEM already has full control permissions looking at your screenshot, so I'd go for your own user name to take full ownership and control.

I haven't a clue who/how TrustedInstaller is there.
TrustedInstaller is a valid Windows account, but it should only be owning the C: (system drive) and not additional data drives according to my research. Given that your D: drive is owned by TrustedInstaller, I'd deduce that's what will be causing the Denied Access errors. It makes sense.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I have left it running, but Macrium is stating that it will take "50" hours to run.  Not to confident, but at the moment it's 16% done.
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nobusCommented:
that points to a problem with motherboard, or many bad sectors on the drive imo
i would do the imaging on a known working pc
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
For the moment,  I haven’t a lot of options.  So, I’ll let it run.   Hopefully Macrium will not save junk.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
A 50 hour estimate is not good, especially so with an SSD drive. I hope you get a good image Howard, but to me it's sounding like what I suspected much earlier in this question. Either the drive was damaged in the swap process or a mainboard problem. Will be interested to see how this turns out.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Macrium completed with some bad sectors.  I also checked the settings on Computer Management for both drives.  Macrium thinks that the "D" drive is the "C" drive.  I captured the Computer Management images for both the "C" and "D" drive.  For some reason the 1st capture only shows upside down in this post.

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ssd
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Appears Macrium is seeing system related entries on the Drive Howard. The 'bad sectors' is a worry. Another pointer to the fact that the SSD may have been accidentally damaged during the mainboard swap.

Can you confirm if you can now mount that image with Macrium reflect and access all the folders and data within it?

If you're confident you now have a backup, I would run the following command on the D drive from an elevated command prompt.

chkdsk /R  ( Locates bad sectors and recovers readable information )

Do that when you won't need to use the PC for a while as it will take quite some time.

Once chkdsk /r is done, I'd then try taking ownership of the drive as we've already discussed.

Hope that's helpful.

Regards, Andrew
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I tried to run chkdsk on the D drive and was told the drive type is "RAW" and wouldn't run.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Are you able to mount the image you created and confirm you can access all the data on it?
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I don't think the image is mountable.  It is a Macrium file, not an ISO.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
You can mount Macrium images just like ISO's Howard.

Check this link: http://kb.macrium.com/knowledgebasearticle50080.aspx
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
The above assumes you have Macrium installed of course.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
It appears like it might mount,  but may take a long time to do so.  Assuming it does, what would be the next step?
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
The next step would be to ensure you have access to all the folders and files inside the image. Check to see if you can copy and paste random folders and files from the image contents to your C drive.

If you can, then you can assume you have a valid backup of the drive's contents. Next step would be to try and take permission of the drive to your profile name as previously discussed.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Note that if you can't, you'll have a recovery job on your hands. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it - hopefully you won't have to.

RAW means that windows doesn't recognize the drive as being formatted.
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
Which is odd dice I can see and access many folders.
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Howard,

Back up the contents of the entire drive to another folder / external drive, format the drive and then recover its contents from the backup. This is a strange problem indeed. Fix one thing and another problem crops up!
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
I am trying to give you this question.  But the GUI has changed and I don't see the accept answer...
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
I am trying to give you this question.  But the GUI has changed and I don't see the accept answer...

Sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me. What do you mean by the "GUI has changed" ?  Have you been able to backup your data or not?
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nobusCommented:
i think he means to give you the points - but does not find how
i find it VERY misleading also
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
Howard,

If you're trying to close this question, please see this article on the new interface.

http://support.experts-exchange.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2527982-how-do-i-close-my-question-

Hope that's helpful.

Regards, Andrew
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Howard BashSenior Software EngineerAuthor Commented:
This new GUI needs work...

Thanks for all your help!
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Andrew LeniartSenior EditorCommented:
This new GUI needs work...

Thanks for closing your questions and I'll pass that feedback on Howard. How did you end up going by the way? Resolved?
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