Backing up Virtual Machines that contains sql server using DPM

Hi,

We have data protection manager (DPM). Were backing up virtual machines which contains SQL server. Were backing up the virtual machine and then backing up the sql databases separately so we can 1. clear log files 2. if we need to restore we don't have to restore the entire virtual machine. It's like double backup in a sense, and storage space is becoming an issue. Any suggestions or how others are handling
jaya31Asked:
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
Exactly how we do it and many of our clients!

and we make sure the schedules do not clash, e.g. different times.
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Luciano PatrãoICT Senior Infraestructure  Engineer  Commented:
Use a different Backup Tool that uses SQL application awareness.  Like Veeam, Nakivo, Altaro or Vembu.

All those tools (in the pay version) have that feature.
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Vitor MontalvãoMSSQL Senior EngineerCommented:
If you're using DPM you might no need SQL Server databases to be in a FULL Recovery Model. This will save you plenty of disk space.
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Vitor MontalvãoMSSQL Senior EngineerCommented:
Oh, and I think you won't need to backup the databases as well.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
DPM restores are faster than Veeam and the other backup technologies!

It depends if you are an occasional SQL house, or have thousands of databases, I would also ask your DBAs, and see what they think!

You may also find of late issues with Veeam 9.5 and SQL! where you've actually got to turn off Application Aware backups....
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Luciano PatrãoICT Senior Infraestructure  Engineer  Commented:
Andrew as long you properly set Veeam and SQL to work with this type of Backups, I don't see big issues using Veeam to Backup SQL or Oracle DB.

I have seen some issues but with VSS and/or VMs snapshots (not related to Veeam).  But we can also find issues using DPM, or other tool.

I do this for our environment (and we have dozens of them) and honestly don't many issues.

For restoring SQL we always should use Veeam Explorer for Microsoft SQL Server.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
look at the EE issues with Veeam, and in the wild, and Veeam blaming Microsoft!

they speak for themselves....all since 9.5...

if Veeam cannot use VSS/Snapshot the VM, the job fails...whether it's Veeam or OS ---> end result no backup! does not matter where you point the finger!

Veeam may once have been king of backups, but it's losing ground and I have a fowl taste in my mouth when a Vendor starts slagging off another Vendor, with no evidence!

No issues with DPM, it does not use the vSphere API!

If we went with and recommended Veeam to our large Corporate Clients, they would laugh us out of the building!!!! for their SQL and Oracle!
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Luciano PatrãoICT Senior Infraestructure  Engineer  Commented:
Off topic:
Some are Microsoft fault don't  dough that :)
Just check the mess that they did with ReFS and the impact that have in backups.

In other hand, users do not follow best practices to backup databases, that is why many time they encounter many issues (using Veeam or other backup product). They think backup DB is just a matter or next... next... next... and will work.

Regarding DPM, honestly cannot answer since I never used for this.
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jaya31Author Commented:
Hi All,

Thanks for advice, we have a demo with Veam and Arcserve. DPM although it does the job is lacking in my opinion. Not easy to troubleshoot, there is no pause feature for running backups, no item level or brick level backup for exchange, SQL and vm together, there could be a better solution, if you dont configure right sql logs are not cleared, white space is left in the ldf files and have to be cleared manually. I wanted to pole and see how others were handling.
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Vitor MontalvãoMSSQL Senior EngineerCommented:
there is no pause feature for running backups
What that means?

if you dont configure right sql logs are not cleared, white space is left in the ldf files and have to be cleared manually.
If you're going to use DPM for SQL Server backups then you need to configure all databases to Simple Recovery Model as there's no reason to have them on Full Recovery Model anymore. That way you don't need to perform any cleaning on transaction log files.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
We find it excellent in what it does for SQL and Oracle and our DBAs like it as well

We don't rely on Veeam or other virtual backup software to backup and restore databases

We just use that software to backup the VMs

Databases are backed up every hour using DPM!

Thousands of databases for easy restore and retrieval
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
But plenty of evaluations to be tested by other backup vendors!

Take your pick and test what works for you and you are happy to use in a crisis and please test restore!

We actually have 4 DPM servers and many backup tepid for it
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jaya31Author Commented:
Hi,

For pausing, I mean if a backup is running and we need to put it on hold, there is no way to pause the backup you have to stop the entire backup, then the backup has to go through consistency check for the next run.

I thought that the databases have to be in full in full recovery mode to commit and clear logs. Looking for documentation on that now, don't see anything.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
What do you use to backup virtual machines ?

Why do you want to pause backups ? do you have a special requirement ?
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jaya31Author Commented:
We use DPM for everything VM, exchange, file servers, sql.

At times when we have a maintenance we need to pause the back to shut the server down or apply and update or if things are slow on the network a job that was scheduled for after hours is in its place in line and ends up crossing into production hours.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
Ah!!!!!! umm....

Protection Agent is not very efficient at full virtual machine backups.

We only use DPM for SQL and Oracle databases!

We use SAN Snapshots to backup VMs!
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jaya31Author Commented:
Is clearing and committing, does the databases have to be set to simple and not full? How are you using?
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Vitor MontalvãoMSSQL Senior EngineerCommented:
Simple Recovery Mode as I said before.
It will also work with Full Recovery Mode but with that it will only make grow the transaction log and you don't need that.
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