I want a simple backup plan. That's simple. Did I say "simple?"
This may sound easy to an expert, but I'm not quite sure and can't seem to find a well-spelled-out answer online, so....
I just installed the free version of Aomei Backupper Standard and it lists the following backups:
System Backup - "Backup Windows and create an image of system partition"
Disk Backup - "Backup hard disks to an image file"
Partition Backup - "Backup partitions or dynamic volumes to an image file"
File Backup - "Easily back up files and folders to an image file"
Hah?
My feeble understanding is this: I have a computer and maybe an external hard drive or two. Internally, the computer has an operating system which is made up of a lot of techie stuff I don't understand. As long as it works. Then I have programs and files/data generated by those programs (or ones I've bought to use} and usually put into folders. If this is correct, all I want is some simple way to back up this stuff! (I do understand the "incremental backup," which seems to be straightforward.)
So what do I need to do to keep it simple, simple, simple, and just back my stuff up to a BIG external hard drive and maybe to the so-called Cloud just as an extra level of safety?
I know it's old and maybe a little trite, but I have to say it: this question falls into the category that is best described by the saying "Just tell me what time it is, don't tell me how to build a clock!"
Experts?
I just installed the free version of Aomei Backupper Standard and it lists the following backups:
System Backup - "Backup Windows and create an image of system partition"
Disk Backup - "Backup hard disks to an image file"
Partition Backup - "Backup partitions or dynamic volumes to an image file"
File Backup - "Easily back up files and folders to an image file"
Hah?
My feeble understanding is this: I have a computer and maybe an external hard drive or two. Internally, the computer has an operating system which is made up of a lot of techie stuff I don't understand. As long as it works. Then I have programs and files/data generated by those programs (or ones I've bought to use} and usually put into folders. If this is correct, all I want is some simple way to back up this stuff! (I do understand the "incremental backup," which seems to be straightforward.)
So what do I need to do to keep it simple, simple, simple, and just back my stuff up to a BIG external hard drive and maybe to the so-called Cloud just as an extra level of safety?
I know it's old and maybe a little trite, but I have to say it: this question falls into the category that is best described by the saying "Just tell me what time it is, don't tell me how to build a clock!"
Experts?
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Mal Osborne
For a neophyte home user like yourself, I generally advise simple, manual backups to a USB key. Just copy important documents to a few $10 USB keys. Of course, this does nothing to help if you computer catches fire or something, but provided you have a USB key somewhere with your documents on, you can always use some other machine to read them.
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OK, not bad for starters. Now let me throw in an angle or two that wasn't in the front of my mind when I posted this question.
First, my understanding is that a disk backup [Is this the same as a disk image?] takes care of what I'm calling the operating system--Windows and all the crap Microsoft uses to make it work. Right?
Next, Perarduaadastra perhaps said it best: file copying is exactly what the expression says. Unless I'm way off here, this is the backup of pictures, videos, documents, etc. Right?
Now, in the clear light of day and the expert comments so far, here's the first factor that may be what has given me such a hard time as far as backup go:
I have a pretty good sized batch of programs (such as 7-zip, PDF reader, audio editors, etc,) which I use regularly. As a matter of habit--and what has seemed the most logical and easiest thing to do--I have saved the documents and/or other files created by these programs in specific folders in the folders containing the program, rather than sticking everything into My Documents. For example, I might take a raw spoken word audio file and save it in the "Raw Audio" folder which is in the "March 2018 Audio work" folder. And, as most programs that I use seem to do, each will save data to a folder whose location and name are designated in the program...which I use by default since it makes sense to me to keep data generated by Program A into a folder somehow connected to Program A, as opposed to in My Documents.
I realize this may not be an issue, but you don't know if you don't ask, so I'm asking. So far, this is what seems to be the deal:
1. A backup for Windows operating system (a system disk and/or image file).
2. Everything else.
Second factor: Even with an "everything else" backup, does this mean that I will need to reinstall all programs I have bought to use, meaning going through the setup and registration process all over again as opposed to copy and go?
First, my understanding is that a disk backup [Is this the same as a disk image?] takes care of what I'm calling the operating system--Windows and all the crap Microsoft uses to make it work. Right?
Next, Perarduaadastra perhaps said it best: file copying is exactly what the expression says. Unless I'm way off here, this is the backup of pictures, videos, documents, etc. Right?
Now, in the clear light of day and the expert comments so far, here's the first factor that may be what has given me such a hard time as far as backup go:
I have a pretty good sized batch of programs (such as 7-zip, PDF reader, audio editors, etc,) which I use regularly. As a matter of habit--and what has seemed the most logical and easiest thing to do--I have saved the documents and/or other files created by these programs in specific folders in the folders containing the program, rather than sticking everything into My Documents. For example, I might take a raw spoken word audio file and save it in the "Raw Audio" folder which is in the "March 2018 Audio work" folder. And, as most programs that I use seem to do, each will save data to a folder whose location and name are designated in the program...which I use by default since it makes sense to me to keep data generated by Program A into a folder somehow connected to Program A, as opposed to in My Documents.
I realize this may not be an issue, but you don't know if you don't ask, so I'm asking. So far, this is what seems to be the deal:
1. A backup for Windows operating system (a system disk and/or image file).
2. Everything else.
Second factor: Even with an "everything else" backup, does this mean that I will need to reinstall all programs I have bought to use, meaning going through the setup and registration process all over again as opposed to copy and go?
have saved the documents and/or other files created by these programs in specific folders in the folders containing the program, rather than sticking everything into My Documents
I do not use My Documents for everything. But I do have about 5 main folders.
I do not use My Documents for everything. But I do have about 5 main folders.
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i prefer also native formats - along with zip format for compressed data
The imaging products I mentioned do permit individual files to be retrieved, although with the caveat that the product has to be installed on a working computer to enable its image files to be mounted as virtual drives.
If the OP has files that simply have to be available in their native format at all times then those should be copied to a USB pen drive or other convenient media type in any case. The great virtue of image backups is that they literally restore your computer to how it was at the time the backup was taken, and so are a very effective remedy for hard disk failure. I concede that such backups are arguably less useful if you're trying to restore an image made on a ten-year-old computer that just suffered a motherborad failure, but trying to cover every possibility is very much a game of diminishing returns.
If the OP has files that simply have to be available in their native format at all times then those should be copied to a USB pen drive or other convenient media type in any case. The great virtue of image backups is that they literally restore your computer to how it was at the time the backup was taken, and so are a very effective remedy for hard disk failure. I concede that such backups are arguably less useful if you're trying to restore an image made on a ten-year-old computer that just suffered a motherborad failure, but trying to cover every possibility is very much a game of diminishing returns.
ASKER
OK, we're getting away from "simple." I know that may sound strange to the experts here, but one person's "simple" may well be another person's "Greek to me" because we grow accustomed to the concept that what we're saying is so remarkably simple, how could anyone possibly not understand it?
BUT--after taking a couple of days to think about this and bat it around, I think I've almost pieced together a plan based on most answers given here. Just a couple more things and we'll wrap 'er up.
A simple question came up at breakfast this morning that needs to be included in the resolution question of this question: when a user installs a program (assuming the program is typical and has anywhere from a few to many associated files to set it up), the installation is likely to install various "bits and pieces" of stuff that is necessary for the program to run when the user want it to...AND that those bits and pieces are automatically placed into folders created by the installation procedure which are created in locations not readily apparent to the user....thereby screwing up any very simple "copy them all" as backup to another computer.
To be as clear as I can be, what we're talking about here is essentially duplicating everything from computer #1 to computer # 2 so that in the case of computer # 1 suffering a hard drive crash or total breakdown, I could simply crank up computer # 2 and continue working with very little grief or hassle.
BUT--after taking a couple of days to think about this and bat it around, I think I've almost pieced together a plan based on most answers given here. Just a couple more things and we'll wrap 'er up.
A simple question came up at breakfast this morning that needs to be included in the resolution question of this question: when a user installs a program (assuming the program is typical and has anywhere from a few to many associated files to set it up), the installation is likely to install various "bits and pieces" of stuff that is necessary for the program to run when the user want it to...AND that those bits and pieces are automatically placed into folders created by the installation procedure which are created in locations not readily apparent to the user....thereby screwing up any very simple "copy them all" as backup to another computer.
To be as clear as I can be, what we're talking about here is essentially duplicating everything from computer #1 to computer # 2 so that in the case of computer # 1 suffering a hard drive crash or total breakdown, I could simply crank up computer # 2 and continue working with very little grief or hassle.
Image the system drive and copy off the data drives
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OK, we're almost ready to wrap this topic up....
I visited the help desk at my local Micro Center the other day to talk with the staff there about my backup questions and had the amazingly good luck to speak to a young lady who was very knowledgeable about backups. I was able to use the info that you experts have provided and a few nuggets she added to come up with what I think is the best plan for me.
I let all this info sink in for a couple of days and here's what I've decided:
1. The Micro Center wizard lady gave me lots of printouts on creating a system image in Windows 10 and 7 using the tools Microsoft provides. However, it's my policy to AVOID using any Microsoft fixes/tools because Microsoft is just not trustworthy. An expert here on EE recently suggested I use Microsoft's Easy Transfer program on a Windows 7 computer I have. I did and learned after the fact that there are multiple glitches that occur and that WET adds a ton of unwanted and ultimately unnecessary files in doing what it's supposed to do. For a non-techie, it was a nightmare. I should also mention that I keep reading and being told that Office 2000, Word 2002 and FrontPage 2003 will not work on later Windows systems, such as 7, 8 or 10, which is simply not true. I have installed them on computers running all those systems and have never experienced any problems. I've also never spent the hundreds of dollars it would have cost to upgrade those tools, of which I only use a small number of features.
2. I have decided to set up my system this way:
--Main computer
--Backup computer (simply a duplicate of the Main computer with everything including working operating gsystem, programs, all other files)
--Travel computer (consider it another backup computer, a little smaller and lighter
--Three external hard drives containing all data files to run with the programs on the computers (One for the main website I run, the second for another website, and the third for everything else)
--Three MORE external drives which will used as backups for the others and selectively for travel
3. Also use a cloud backup for program files from the "main" computer, and the three external hard drives.
4. I'm not that worried about a system crash because it's been my experience that you simply have to reinstall the operating system as a starting point when that happens, and then load everything back again. But any suggestions you have regarding this point are also welcome
Since I'm no expert, I would like to hear from YOU with evaluation of my plan, suggestions for the backup plan I outline here, any comments on stuff I may have overlooked, etc.....all keeping in mind that you are talking NOT to an expert. Consider me one or wo steps above a novice and that should avoid any lack of comprehension on my part. I do confess to owning a few "....for Dummies" books, you know.
After you reply, I'll award the points and warp this up!
I visited the help desk at my local Micro Center the other day to talk with the staff there about my backup questions and had the amazingly good luck to speak to a young lady who was very knowledgeable about backups. I was able to use the info that you experts have provided and a few nuggets she added to come up with what I think is the best plan for me.
I let all this info sink in for a couple of days and here's what I've decided:
1. The Micro Center wizard lady gave me lots of printouts on creating a system image in Windows 10 and 7 using the tools Microsoft provides. However, it's my policy to AVOID using any Microsoft fixes/tools because Microsoft is just not trustworthy. An expert here on EE recently suggested I use Microsoft's Easy Transfer program on a Windows 7 computer I have. I did and learned after the fact that there are multiple glitches that occur and that WET adds a ton of unwanted and ultimately unnecessary files in doing what it's supposed to do. For a non-techie, it was a nightmare. I should also mention that I keep reading and being told that Office 2000, Word 2002 and FrontPage 2003 will not work on later Windows systems, such as 7, 8 or 10, which is simply not true. I have installed them on computers running all those systems and have never experienced any problems. I've also never spent the hundreds of dollars it would have cost to upgrade those tools, of which I only use a small number of features.
2. I have decided to set up my system this way:
--Main computer
--Backup computer (simply a duplicate of the Main computer with everything including working operating gsystem, programs, all other files)
--Travel computer (consider it another backup computer, a little smaller and lighter
--Three external hard drives containing all data files to run with the programs on the computers (One for the main website I run, the second for another website, and the third for everything else)
--Three MORE external drives which will used as backups for the others and selectively for travel
3. Also use a cloud backup for program files from the "main" computer, and the three external hard drives.
4. I'm not that worried about a system crash because it's been my experience that you simply have to reinstall the operating system as a starting point when that happens, and then load everything back again. But any suggestions you have regarding this point are also welcome
Since I'm no expert, I would like to hear from YOU with evaluation of my plan, suggestions for the backup plan I outline here, any comments on stuff I may have overlooked, etc.....all keeping in mind that you are talking NOT to an expert. Consider me one or wo steps above a novice and that should avoid any lack of comprehension on my part. I do confess to owning a few "....for Dummies" books, you know.
After you reply, I'll award the points and warp this up!
If you consider that reinstalling Windows, reinstalling Windows Updates and all the programs and their updates and the printer(s) and re-configuring everything is easy then there is a lot less to talk about.
In that case, there's no real need to image.
I would caution that external hard drives won't protect against fire and theft unless dispersed.
In that case, there's no real need to image.
I would caution that external hard drives won't protect against fire and theft unless dispersed.
That seems good - but i don't see a timing plan
how often will you image the pc's? dayly, weekly, or monthly?
also - what software will you use for it?
and you don't plan a file backup ?
how often will you image the pc's? dayly, weekly, or monthly?
also - what software will you use for it?
and you don't plan a file backup ?
ASKER
I have not yet decided on imaging the PCs but I'm thinking monthly at this point, and I have 5 plans (backup programs, that is) in front of me, with the selection going to the absolute easiest to use. Ditto for a cloud backup. RE: file backup. The documents and 'working" files will be on one of the three "working" external hard drives, which will be used for ALL files other than program files. These will be backed up very simply weekly. Program files will be on the three computers I believe I mentioned (working, backup, and travel, as well as a 4th external drive just for programs.
Once this gets put into place, I think the actual backup operations will be fairly straightforward and easy. I'm sure the segmentation sounds a little repetitive and/or redundant to some experts, but there does not appear to appear to be ANY backup plan I have encountered that makes backing up simple and straightforward. It seems that every plan I've looked at talks about how easy it is to do a backup and then has the equivalent of a "buy to also have to do this..." statement repeated again and again.
Multiple copies of programs and data which I dictate and control, with the understanding that there may well be a computer crash that will require reinstalling a system or new system and a batch of programs on ONE computer at a time at different intervals if the absolute worst happens, all of the backups blowing out--which under my plan,simply cannot happen at the same time.
Thanks, nobus. LAST CALL for any other experts to make suggestions. Will close this out tonight.
Once this gets put into place, I think the actual backup operations will be fairly straightforward and easy. I'm sure the segmentation sounds a little repetitive and/or redundant to some experts, but there does not appear to appear to be ANY backup plan I have encountered that makes backing up simple and straightforward. It seems that every plan I've looked at talks about how easy it is to do a backup and then has the equivalent of a "buy to also have to do this..." statement repeated again and again.
Multiple copies of programs and data which I dictate and control, with the understanding that there may well be a computer crash that will require reinstalling a system or new system and a batch of programs on ONE computer at a time at different intervals if the absolute worst happens, all of the backups blowing out--which under my plan,simply cannot happen at the same time.
Thanks, nobus. LAST CALL for any other experts to make suggestions. Will close this out tonight.
ASKER
..make that "BUT" rather than "BUY" in the second paragraph of my previous post. Having a bad typing day today.
I don't see why backups aren't daily. Weekly backups leave a lot to be lost if any work is going on.
I schedule Second Copy (SC) (and, if necessary, Windows Task Scheduler to trigger SC) so it's all automatic and hands off. So why not?
I schedule Second Copy (SC) (and, if necessary, Windows Task Scheduler to trigger SC) so it's all automatic and hands off. So why not?
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While I can definitely use the info presented here, what I've really learned is that there is NO simple, straightforward how-to-do-it for explaining what a backup is to how to choose what's right for the individual. And I don't think I'm asking too much. The overlapping "angles" and options never seemed to be presented in simple, logical form.
I liken this to telling someone to back up a car to load some stuff into the trunk:
1. Start the car.
2. Back it up to the dock.
3. Put the stuff into the trunk.
So where are the additional questions for something this simple?
1. How do I open the car door. How do I start the engine?
2. How do I put this car into reverse gear? Which pedal is the gas, and which is the brake?
3. I don't see anyplace on the trunk to unlock the car. What do I do now?
All of the answers in and of themselves are simple. But overlook them and things get very confusing fast.
In spite of this, I do appreciate the responses from the experts, and I'm sorry it took awhile to wrap his up. Some traveling came along that took precedence over everything else for longer than I expected.
I liken this to telling someone to back up a car to load some stuff into the trunk:
1. Start the car.
2. Back it up to the dock.
3. Put the stuff into the trunk.
So where are the additional questions for something this simple?
1. How do I open the car door. How do I start the engine?
2. How do I put this car into reverse gear? Which pedal is the gas, and which is the brake?
3. I don't see anyplace on the trunk to unlock the car. What do I do now?
All of the answers in and of themselves are simple. But overlook them and things get very confusing fast.
In spite of this, I do appreciate the responses from the experts, and I'm sorry it took awhile to wrap his up. Some traveling came along that took precedence over everything else for longer than I expected.
Thanks for the update and I was happy to help you.
well - your problem seems simple - but it's one of the most difficult ones to solve - if you want to take everything into account
you best make a list of all options - then make a second one with ONLY the options you need - or are practical for you
that should trim it down
niot everyone wants an image backup on a regular schedule, or complete backup
you best make a list of all options - then make a second one with ONLY the options you need - or are practical for you
that should trim it down
niot everyone wants an image backup on a regular schedule, or complete backup