Website templating pros and cons

What are the pros and cons of using some sort of templating framework versus creating a class/functions to create dynamic web content?

Does it make more sense do perform the templating from the back end or front end?

I keep going back to localization and storing text strings etc as textual representation and converting them some tool

Currently i am thinking of running a query to get the data and storing in on the front size for javascript(jquery) to create the page
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J NUnicorn wranglerAsked:
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Julian HansenCommented:
Server side rendering is definitely the way to go. As to whether you should use templating - that is a very open ended question is dependent entirely on the site you are building and how it will work.

Most templating frameworks wrap content output in a function or class - the template is just a means to make the HTML look cleaner when you have to do things like variable insertion, looped outputs etc.
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gr8gonzoConsultantCommented:
Like Julian said, server-side / backend rendering of content is far better (and usually more secure). If you're not really familiar with what all your requirements might be here, then I would suggest a well-established framework that has a focus on templating, since it will likely have solutions to problems that you haven't yet encountered nor considered.

The only catch to a framework is that it usually has more code than you'll need, and it is often designed to be flexible to the general needs of everyone, so it will often run slower compared to writing custom code that specifically addresses your needs. But again, you might spend a lot of time writing custom code that isn't efficient and eventually wind up with something that performs worse than a framework in the long run.

So if you're an extremely experienced PHP developer, then I'd suggest writing your own code. But if you're not, then go with a framework for now.

keep going back to localization and storing text strings etc as textual representation and converting them some tool
In case "converting them some tool" means that you're thinking of using an automatic translator to convert between languages, don't do that. Machine translations are great when you're looking to translate a specific word or phrase, but they're HORRIBLE at accurately translating large amounts of text. The more content you have, the higher the chance of there being language-specific oddities and quirks that will not translate correctly.  For example, English grammar puts adjectives before nouns, like "the red apple", while Spanish grammar puts adjectives after the noun, "la manzana roja", which would directly translate to "the apple red".

Some machine translators can properly take some grammar into consideration, but again, that is a very short phrase. When you use a lot of content, the machine translations begin to get bizarre. Google has one of the best translation engines, but if you open up a page that is written natively in a non-English language and have Google translate the entire page back to English, you'll get a better idea of what your results would be like.

So if you're aiming for accurate localization, make sure you take the time to find human translators who will understand the nuances and quirks of the language and be able to properly translate things for you.
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J NUnicorn wranglerAuthor Commented:
HI,

Thanks for the comments - I have experience in back-end so that makes things 100% easier.

Every new project i always look at new ways to do things and see if there is something out there that works better - in this case i think i got it covered.

Back to localization.
I have been looking at gettext -> is there  a better solution for an app

Seems like there will be one larger conversion page with  

#Comment #1
#english text to be converted
#convertered text


#Comment #2
#english text to be converted
#convertered text

so on  for the entire site?


What i have essentially done is created two tables (one internal and one for the user)

The internal table contains three columns that are for the app to use such as

term    |     description    |   acceptableValues

bithday        |      The birthday of the user | [0-100]
gender.......


The table contains predefined data that the user an update/ add to their details

The user internal would be

id               | user_id       | term   | value


1              |  1                  | birthday| 20
...

Essentially i would want the description and term on the internal table converted but do not care about the users input
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gr8gonzoConsultantCommented:
Gettext certain performs well, but that's because it's a compiled extension that focuses on this functionality. It needs to be included as an extension in your build, and you need to take some additional steps to get it set up.

Personally, I would just go with custom code for doing this. Set up a database table that contains your Key/Language/Value rows, and populate it with your various strings:
Key                | Language | Value
I_HAVE_A_RED_APPLE | en-US    | I have a red apple.
I_HAVE_A_RED_APPLE | es-MX    | Yo tengo una manzana roja.

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Then, have a process that takes the database values and dumps them to a language-specific flat file that can be included in your custom code. So for example:

if($end_user_language == "en-US")
{
  include("lang/en_US.inc");
}
elseif($end_user_language == "es-MX")
{
  include("lang/es_MX.inc");
}
...etc...

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That presumes the content of these files is simply something like this:

en_US.inc
<?php
$__I_HAVE_A_RED_APPLE = "I have a red apple.";

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es_MX.inc
<?php
$__I_HAVE_A_RED_APPLE = "Yo tengo una manzana roja.";

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And you can then use $__I_HAVE_A_RED_APPLE in your template. By using a flat file that matches your values in the database, you'll put less strain on the database, and you'll have the flexibility to even take it a step further, like storing the files on a ramdisk or memory cache for faster I/O. Meanwhile you can use the database to manage the strings easily.
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gr8gonzoConsultantCommented:
Don't try to combine logic with localization. Localization should simply be about proper display of the text. Things like acceptable range of values of inputs that might reside NEXT to a label should be handled completely separately.
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J NUnicorn wranglerAuthor Commented:
Hi,

Wouldnt storing it in a database be an overburden?

You would need to create the file from the language and either you limit the results to create it faster and have to recreate/make a new page

or

you fetch it all at once and then include a massive library of variables to be replaced into text

Wouldnt the second option be almost the same as gettext
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gr8gonzoConsultantCommented:
Storing in the database would provide you with easier management of the content. The database content would then be dumped (upon changes) to the flat files, which would work as an on-disk cache.

Yes, the option is similar to gettext, but doesn't require the gettext extension or the extra setup.
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J NUnicorn wranglerAuthor Commented:
In your method, should the dumped file contain variables or constants as that would allow more flexibility
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gr8gonzoConsultantCommented:
So constants in compiled languages are usually a good thing, but their performance in PHP is terrible. Here's how the performance pans out using different options:

Option #1: Constant Substitution
define("MYCONSTANT", "My content");
$content = "Surrounding content" . MYCONSTANT . "Other surrounding content";

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Option #2: Class Constant Substitution
class Language
{
  const MYCLASSCONSTANT = "My content";
}
$content = "Surrounding content" . Language::MYCLASSCONSTANT . "Other surrounding content";

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Option #3: Variable Substitution
$MYVAR = "My content";
$content = "Surrounding content" . $MYVAR . "Other surrounding content";

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Option #4: Search and Replace
$MYVAR = "My content";
$content = str_replace("{MYVAR}",$MYVAR, "Surrounding content{MYVAR}Other surrounding content");

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I downloaded a text version of the King James Version of the Bible (a little over 4 megs of text content), and then swapped out the word "the" for constants/vars using the options above. There were a total of 62,103 instances of the word "the" that were swapped out. The performance results:

Option #1: Constant Substitution - 64.4 seconds to execute
Option #2: Class Constant Substitution - 58.8 seconds to execute
Option #3: Variable Substitution - 0.10 seconds to execute
Option #4: Search and Replace - 0.025 seconds to execute

So option #4 performs best by far. I'd recommend sticking to a search-and-replace type of methodology. So in your dump file, you could build out an array, like:
$_TEMPLATE = array(
  "{HELLO_WORLD}" => "Hello world!",
  "{MY_CONTENT}" => "My content",
  "{YOUR_CONTENT}" => "Your content",
);

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...and then replace it like this (assuming your $template is a string like "Blahblah{HELLO_WORLD}blahblah":
$final_content = str_replace(array_keys($_TEMPLATE), $_TEMPLATE, $template);

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J NUnicorn wranglerAuthor Commented:
Wow

Thanks that gives me that answers i was looking for!
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