marrowyung
asked on
DB2 Automatic storage management limitation
hi,
Automatic storage management is only logical structure only and not related to what oracle ASM can offer, it can't load balancing data based on need, right?
also any limitation on using that ?
Automatic storage management is only logical structure only and not related to what oracle ASM can offer, it can't load balancing data based on need, right?
also any limitation on using that ?
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I'm not aware of a Microsoft storage management product called SSD. A quick search didn't turn up anything, either.
They do have some high-end storage management techniques that can utilize Solid State Drives along with traditional rotating disks.
They do have some high-end storage management techniques that can utilize Solid State Drives along with traditional rotating disks.
ASKER
here you go:
https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2016/09/27/sql-server-2016-now-supports-windows-server-2016-storage-spaces-direct/
as long as company buy Windows 2016 data center edition it is free !
it is storage horizontal scale out solution for storage.
https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2016/09/27/sql-server-2016-now-supports-windows-server-2016-storage-spaces-direct/
as long as company buy Windows 2016 data center edition it is free !
it is storage horizontal scale out solution for storage.
ASKER
" Automatic Storage Management looks a lot like other DBMS storage management, but it isn't the equivalent of the similarly named Oracle product."
how diff is it ? ASM can automatically rearrange data set in real time. how about Automatic Storage Management ?
how diff is it ? ASM can automatically rearrange data set in real time. how about Automatic Storage Management ?
ASKER
more on SSD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raeUiNtMk0E
Hi,
Automatic Storage tablespace feature is free and available in all Editions of DB2.
Automatic storage adds containers automatically to the tablespace on its given storage path only when it is needed. And only when a table grows beyond its current containers and those containers are marked full it will use the newly created container.
A rebalance tablespace alter command can also be issued to force the tablespace to try balance the data evenly across all containers.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
Automatic Storage tablespace feature is free and available in all Editions of DB2.
Automatic storage adds containers automatically to the tablespace on its given storage path only when it is needed. And only when a table grows beyond its current containers and those containers are marked full it will use the newly created container.
A rebalance tablespace alter command can also be issued to force the tablespace to try balance the data evenly across all containers.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
ASKER
"A rebalance tablespace alter command "
need to do this manually ?
"try balance the data evenly across all containers. "
container here means ?
automated storage system is fully scalable? how many DB2 nodes it can scale ?
need to do this manually ?
"try balance the data evenly across all containers. "
container here means ?
automated storage system is fully scalable? how many DB2 nodes it can scale ?
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ASKER
"Db2 pureScale uses only Automatic Storage tablespaces and pureScale makes Db2 scalable across multiple nodes. "
man , is a good statement. it normal IBM can only use it. I know purescale offer horizontal scale out for all DB2 nodes on the same operation.
"It can be done manually as well as in a scheduled script which you setup according to your needs. "
so without that command automated storage management is not going to start working ?
"supported filesystems"
what file system supported?
man , is a good statement. it normal IBM can only use it. I know purescale offer horizontal scale out for all DB2 nodes on the same operation.
"It can be done manually as well as in a scheduled script which you setup according to your needs. "
so without that command automated storage management is not going to start working ?
"supported filesystems"
what file system supported?
Hi,
>so without that command automated storage management is not going to start working ?
Automatic Storage tablespaces simply works as intended and from the moment it is created. You define the automatic storage tablespace on a particular storage group and it automatically creates containers and uses them as they are needed. If you have automatic reorg enabled then a rebalance across containers is done if needed and required space is available in the containers used by the tablespace.
IBM recommends these filesystems.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
>so without that command automated storage management is not going to start working ?
Automatic Storage tablespaces simply works as intended and from the moment it is created. You define the automatic storage tablespace on a particular storage group and it automatically creates containers and uses them as they are needed. If you have automatic reorg enabled then a rebalance across containers is done if needed and required space is available in the containers used by the tablespace.
IBM recommends these filesystems.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
ASKER
" If you have automatic reorg enabled then a rebalance across containers is done if needed and required space is available in the containers used by the tablespace. "
so still need additional configuration ? should not right ? oracle ASM don't need at all.
"Automatic Storage tablespaces are scalable across supported filesystems"
so this means for storage with DIFF files system can be managed by automatic storage management system ?
so still need additional configuration ? should not right ? oracle ASM don't need at all.
"Automatic Storage tablespaces are scalable across supported filesystems"
so this means for storage with DIFF files system can be managed by automatic storage management system ?
Hi,
All databases need some configuration and tuning to match the requirements of the applications they serve.
Automatic table maintenance a.k.a. reorg/runstats are enabled by default in DB2. So you have automatic maintenance as soon as the database is created/started.
However, I ( and most DBA's that I know ) disable it when the database is created to have full control on when reorg/runstats are run.
You don't want reorgs to be run on a very large tables in the middle of your batch or your highest peak of the day/month. That can have some effect on your application performance. Even a rebalance can have those effects and not just in DB2 but also in Oracle.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
All databases need some configuration and tuning to match the requirements of the applications they serve.
Automatic table maintenance a.k.a. reorg/runstats are enabled by default in DB2. So you have automatic maintenance as soon as the database is created/started.
However, I ( and most DBA's that I know ) disable it when the database is created to have full control on when reorg/runstats are run.
You don't want reorgs to be run on a very large tables in the middle of your batch or your highest peak of the day/month. That can have some effect on your application performance. Even a rebalance can have those effects and not just in DB2 but also in Oracle.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
ASKER
"automatic maintenance as soon as the database is created/started. "
ok, the reorg operation to storage performance is part of auto maintenance, by default, right?
"However, I ( and most DBA's that I know ) disable it when the database is created to have full control on when reorg/runstats are run."
ok. so that automated storage management seems not necessary need to be automate then ..
"You don't want reorgs to be run on a very large tables in the middle of your batch or your highest peak of the day/month."
so your script for triggering automated storage management will once again run after the batch of work ?
ok, the reorg operation to storage performance is part of auto maintenance, by default, right?
"However, I ( and most DBA's that I know ) disable it when the database is created to have full control on when reorg/runstats are run."
ok. so that automated storage management seems not necessary need to be automate then ..
"You don't want reorgs to be run on a very large tables in the middle of your batch or your highest peak of the day/month."
so your script for triggering automated storage management will once again run after the batch of work ?
Hi,
>ok, the reorg operation to storage performance is part of auto maintenance, by default, right?
Yes, it can be but I prefer to have some control over it as it can , as I said in earlier comment, have some impact on application performance while it is running on very large tables and you don't want such impact in the peak of your business hours.
>ok. so that automated storage management seems not necessary need to be automate then ..
It depends on what your application requirements are.
>so your script for triggering automated storage management will once again run after the batch of work ?
Again, it depends what your application requirements are and how badly disorganized tables are after the nigthly batch workload.
I manage medium to huge databases and we have weekly scheduled reorgs/runstats. Every now and then we schedule or run manually additional reorg/runstats on individual tables if online and/or the nightly batch workload has made the table very disorganized. We run daily reports to monitor this. Some of the tables are huge and have high traffic during normal business hours so that we have just a very small window to reorg just few partitions of them. A reorg of those tables (even though just 1 to few partitions) is a good CPU and resource burner and it is not wise to run it on normal business hours as you can imagine.
Therefore when considering to have automatic table maintenance turned on whether it is in Db2 or Oracle you need to take into account such scenarios where the database all of a sudden decides to reorg your biggest table(s) which lead to the fact that your applications will suffer as little or no resources are left for them to run with optimal/maximum performance.
Note that Oracle ASM and DB2 Automatic Storage Tablespaces behave and are configured in very similar way. AND they both load balance data based on need and when you add new disks to the system.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
>ok, the reorg operation to storage performance is part of auto maintenance, by default, right?
Yes, it can be but I prefer to have some control over it as it can , as I said in earlier comment, have some impact on application performance while it is running on very large tables and you don't want such impact in the peak of your business hours.
>ok. so that automated storage management seems not necessary need to be automate then ..
It depends on what your application requirements are.
>so your script for triggering automated storage management will once again run after the batch of work ?
Again, it depends what your application requirements are and how badly disorganized tables are after the nigthly batch workload.
I manage medium to huge databases and we have weekly scheduled reorgs/runstats. Every now and then we schedule or run manually additional reorg/runstats on individual tables if online and/or the nightly batch workload has made the table very disorganized. We run daily reports to monitor this. Some of the tables are huge and have high traffic during normal business hours so that we have just a very small window to reorg just few partitions of them. A reorg of those tables (even though just 1 to few partitions) is a good CPU and resource burner and it is not wise to run it on normal business hours as you can imagine.
Therefore when considering to have automatic table maintenance turned on whether it is in Db2 or Oracle you need to take into account such scenarios where the database all of a sudden decides to reorg your biggest table(s) which lead to the fact that your applications will suffer as little or no resources are left for them to run with optimal/maximum performance.
Note that Oracle ASM and DB2 Automatic Storage Tablespaces behave and are configured in very similar way. AND they both load balance data based on need and when you add new disks to the system.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
ASKER
" have some impact on application performance"
actually by this, that feature even on Oracle is not good ?!
"It depends on what your application requirements are. "
the requirement will always be , I don't want to see the application slow. AHHAHAH
"Some of the tables are huge and have high traffic during normal business hours so that we have just a very small window to reorg just few partitions of them. A reorg of those tables (even though just 1 to few partitions) is a good CPU and resource burner and it is not wise to run it on normal business hours as you can imagine.
"
this making me think that what ASM is doing is MS SQL's index rebuilt and update statistics! which Oracle don't have to do that at all but relies on ASM.
"Note that Oracle ASM and DB2 Automatic Storage Tablespaces behave and are configured in very similar way."
believe so..
actually by this, that feature even on Oracle is not good ?!
"It depends on what your application requirements are. "
the requirement will always be , I don't want to see the application slow. AHHAHAH
"Some of the tables are huge and have high traffic during normal business hours so that we have just a very small window to reorg just few partitions of them. A reorg of those tables (even though just 1 to few partitions) is a good CPU and resource burner and it is not wise to run it on normal business hours as you can imagine.
"
this making me think that what ASM is doing is MS SQL's index rebuilt and update statistics! which Oracle don't have to do that at all but relies on ASM.
"Note that Oracle ASM and DB2 Automatic Storage Tablespaces behave and are configured in very similar way."
believe so..
Hi,
>actually by this, that feature even on Oracle is not good ?!
That is why you choose a time-period where you have low/minimal traffic for that action to take place.
Overall then this feature is good as every modern database need to move it data around on disks, either using reorg or rebalance,
for optimal performance.
>the requirement will always be , I don't want to see the application slow. AHHAHAH
Again, that is why you want to have such feature and do regularly reorg/runstats and rebalance.
>this making me think that what ASM is doing is MS SQL's index rebuilt and update statistics! which Oracle don't have to do that at all but >relies on ASM.
And again, all databases (regardless of vendors and EVEN Oracle) need to have it's data to be reorged, statistics updated and rebalanced so that the database optimizer would be able to choose the best available access path to the data in order for the applications to have optimal performance.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
>actually by this, that feature even on Oracle is not good ?!
That is why you choose a time-period where you have low/minimal traffic for that action to take place.
Overall then this feature is good as every modern database need to move it data around on disks, either using reorg or rebalance,
for optimal performance.
>the requirement will always be , I don't want to see the application slow. AHHAHAH
Again, that is why you want to have such feature and do regularly reorg/runstats and rebalance.
>this making me think that what ASM is doing is MS SQL's index rebuilt and update statistics! which Oracle don't have to do that at all but >relies on ASM.
And again, all databases (regardless of vendors and EVEN Oracle) need to have it's data to be reorged, statistics updated and rebalanced so that the database optimizer would be able to choose the best available access path to the data in order for the applications to have optimal performance.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
Hi,
I believe that I deserve at least a small recognition for my contribution to this question as I have
pointed out that DB2 Automatic Storage Tablespaces AND Oracle Automatic Storage Mangement (ASM) have in fact
very similar functionality and behave the same as such. For example both relies on Storage Groups.
So, in fact Kent's claim that "they are indead different" and "..but it isn't the equivalent of the similarly named Oracle product" is not entirely true.
To illustrate this I point out this article where Oracle and DB2 Storage Modele are compared.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
I believe that I deserve at least a small recognition for my contribution to this question as I have
pointed out that DB2 Automatic Storage Tablespaces AND Oracle Automatic Storage Mangement (ASM) have in fact
very similar functionality and behave the same as such. For example both relies on Storage Groups.
So, in fact Kent's claim that "they are indead different" and "..but it isn't the equivalent of the similarly named Oracle product" is not entirely true.
To illustrate this I point out this article where Oracle and DB2 Storage Modele are compared.
Regards,
Tomas Helgi
ASKER
hi,
can't see why! I will give you point but can't see why not both of you have score ! I redo it now.
yesterday found a moment where PC super slow! it mix up thing ... ???
can't see why! I will give you point but can't see why not both of you have score ! I redo it now.
yesterday found a moment where PC super slow! it mix up thing ... ???
ASKER
sure. that's why it called Automatic storage !
" but it isn't the equivalent of the similarly named Oracle product."
what is the diff?
this one of course is chargeable, right ?
Did you heard about Microsoft Windows 2016 SSD ? their own storage management system, if we buy datacenter edition of Windows server 2016 it is FREE! it has a smart idea to NOT use any SAN and use only local storage of all servers and group them as a pool, then it sense out all different type of storage ,e.g. SSD and HDD, then it make decision on which one can be cache for the WHOLE volumn and adjust speed for us.
can automatic storage management do it or what it can't do ?
microsoft SSD is for everthing need that storage, even web server, file server, application etc. it seems Oracle ASM and DB2 automate storage management only take care DB storage, right?