Gateway is on different subnet than IP addresses

sasllc
sasllc used Ask the Experts™
on
This small office customer recently changed to AT&T for their ISP.  Looking at ipconfig, their PCs are all 192.168.5.x, but their gateway is 192.168.4.1.  All the PCs get "automatic" IP addresses, and they all access the internet and their local network just fine.

The problem comes in when I need to set new addresses on their two wireless radios.  We always set them up with static IPs.  If I try to set up the static IP as 192.168.5.232, and the gateway as 192.168.4.1, I get an error saying both must be in the same subnet.

Trying to get fast, qualified help from AT&T while I'm here on site is going to be impossible, based on past experience.  I'm hoping someone here at e-e knows what, if anything I can do to get the IP addresses and the gateway in the same subnet, or some other solution that will work.  I am accustomed to seeing both in the subnet everywhere I go, so I'm lost as to why it is this way, and what to do about it.  TIA
Comment
Watch Question

Do more with

Expert Office
EXPERT OFFICE® is a registered trademark of EXPERTS EXCHANGE®
Distinguished Expert 2018
Commented:
What is the subnet mask? And how is the network laid out?
nociSoftware Engineer
Distinguished Expert 2018
Commented:
What are the netmasks?   /24 would separate 4.x & 5.x   while a /23 (or smaller) those networks are joined....

All systems in the same network NEED to have the same netmask. (Otherwise they are on a different network, by definition).
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)
Most Valuable Expert 2012
Expert of the Year 2018
Commented:
Much agree that you that you need ONE subnet. Did ATT put wired / wireless on different subnets?  Bad idea that.

Ask ATT again to put all on one subnet.
Ensure you’re charging the right price for your IT

Do you wonder if your IT business is truly profitable or if you should raise your prices? Learn how to calculate your overhead burden using our free interactive tool and use it to determine the right price for your IT services. Start calculating Now!

Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
I would look mainly in certain areas: The DHCP settings, along with the actually IP settings of the router.
Dr. KlahnPrincipal Software Engineer
Commented:
This small office customer recently changed to AT&T for their ISP.

<flame>
Having just dropped AT&T after three weeks of non-response to internet problems ...

Well, that's a problem right there.  Pretty much any other ISP would be preferable.
</flame>
Philip ElderTechnical Architect - HA/Compute/Storage
Commented:
Put the WAPs on the same subnet as the gateway? A 192.168.x.x/24 is the best one can do given network subnet norms/RFCs.
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
If I try to set up the static IP as 192.168.5.232, and the gateway as 192.168.4.1, I get an error saying both must be in the same subnet.
Did you ever try setting their IP addresses as 192.168.4.x? Might be a way around things until you get it all sorted. But I would think you could configure the router...
atlas_shudderedSr. Network Engineer
Commented:
If your PCs are getting out to the Internets then they are getting to the gateway, which means that they are most likely configured with a broader netmask than the /24 normally expected on a 192.168.x.x net.  Someone higher up mentioned a /23, it could also be a /22 or higher as well.

Go to one of the PC's and run ipconfig, check the mask.  Or, if you have access to the router itself (sounds like you might) then check the interface configuration for the LAN side:

show run int Fa/Gi X/X/Y

Confirm the mask.

If it is anything other than /24 (255.255.255.0), then change it appropriately on the radios.  If you need a reference for the CIDR to DoDe translation then check this link:

https://kb.wisc.edu/ns/page.php?id=3493
nociSoftware Engineer
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
BTW gateway can never be on a different subnet, that doesn;t work... So if it works the subnet must be bigger than you thought..

@masnrock the netmasks need to be the same even then so not a solution... If the other currently works the conclusion must be that the netmask is smaller (==> the network is bigger).

/32 = 255.255.255.255 = 11111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
...
/23 = 255.255.254.0 = 11111111.11111111.11111110.00000000
/22 = 255.255.252.0 = 11111111.11111111.11111100.00000000
/21 = 255.255.248.0 = 11111111.11111111.11111000.00000000
/20 = 255.255.240.0 = 11111111.11111111.11110000.00000000
/19 = 255.255.224.0 = 11111111.11111111.11100000.00000000
/18 = 255.255.192.0 = 11111111.11111111.11000000.00000000
/17 = 255.255.128.0 = 11111111.11111111.10000000.00000000
....
/0   =  0.0.0.0.0  = 00000000.00000000.00000000.00000000  (aka the internet...)
(the netmask shift one bit to the left each time...)

Author

Commented:
By the time I had finished posting this question, I found the business owner on the phone with AT&T--and she insisted that I talk with them.  After FOUR HOURS of holding, being transferred, being disconnected, and trying to communicate in a foreign language, even talking with confused Level 2 techs, I found this morning that nothing had been fixed, because everyone still had 192.168.5.x addresses.  And I could do nothing about it, because this is a "managed router" that AT&T would not let me access.  

Long story short, today I had to set static IPs on several devices in the 192.68.4.x range in order to make them work.  This was something I could not do yesterday, so I guess it is fair to say they AT&T tech support did "something"--but I don't know what.  The customer still has a gateway of 192.168.4.1, and a subnet mask of 255.255.252.0, and most of the PCs still have automatic 192.168.5.x addresses.  But the ones I set static in the 192.168.4.x range now work as well, so at this point I'll have to give up and go with it.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)
Most Valuable Expert 2012
Expert of the Year 2018

Commented:
You can always put your own Wireless Router on one subnet and use that subnet for your network. Additional router, but that should work fine.
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
Given the way you initially said things were configured, it almost sounds there was a very weird router misconfiguration at the start.

Honestly, the best solution was suggested by Dr Klahn far at the beginning: dump AT&T. If that's the type of support you're getting at the start, it surely isn't going to get any better. What alternatives are available that meet your client's needs?

Your own router is only going to help so much: you would have to opt for a subnet that doesnt overlap with the existing one in the AT&T router. Obviously there is also that double NAT thing.
Two Solutions

(1) Change the subnet from 255.255.255.0 to 255.255.254.0    OR   (Radio must be support VLSM - Variable Length Subnet Mask)

(2) Change the IP address of all computers to 192.168.4.0/24

What ever is convenient to you.
atlas_shudderedSr. Network Engineer

Commented:
saslic -

Is the carrier running DHCP on the router?
nociSoftware Engineer
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
The customer still has a gateway of 192.168.4.1, and a subnet mask of 255.255.252.0
Here you say it... your (sub)NETMASK is 255.255.252.0  so  set THAT on every device.  (/22)

You may now have devices with 192.168.4.x netmask 255.255.255.0 (/24)   ==> those will FAIL for some devices.
on the existing network. (because broadcast addresses dont match for
192.168.4.x/22  = 192.168.7.255   with 192.168.4.x/24 = 192.168.4.255   so anything broadcast based WILL fail in that setup to reach 192.168.5.0 - 192.168.5.254 .  and station @192.168.4.255 might really be interesting... to have as user.

Do more with

Expert Office
Submit tech questions to Ask the Experts™ at any time to receive solutions, advice, and new ideas from leading industry professionals.

Start 7-Day Free Trial