Win7 .. Upgrade to SSD - how easy & experiences
Im interested in what peoples experiences with replacing the hard drive with an SSD are like, this is for a Win7 64bit machine using a SATA interface,
currently the drive is a 1TB partitioned as 50:50 C: and D: drives, with programs on C: mainly, my questions are:
1) Reliability - i believe flash memory has a limit on number of re-writes, so will an SSD eventually become corrupted?, is the SSD lifetime comparable
to the trusty mechanical Hard drive?
2) The machine only has 2 SATA interfaces, one used by the CD/DVD drive which i rarely use, is there a way to keep the HDD installed so
it could be used as some sort of quick backup device?
3) What sort of speed improvements are likely on boot up time, and what software would you use to install/ copy over the existing hard drive info?
4) Could a 500GB SSD be used just for frequently used programs/data and the HDD for archive info?, or is the idea to throw away the hard drive when you
install the SSD?, or do you need the same size SSD drive as your existing HDD?
Many thanks for your help / experience !
currently the drive is a 1TB partitioned as 50:50 C: and D: drives, with programs on C: mainly, my questions are:
1) Reliability - i believe flash memory has a limit on number of re-writes, so will an SSD eventually become corrupted?, is the SSD lifetime comparable
to the trusty mechanical Hard drive?
2) The machine only has 2 SATA interfaces, one used by the CD/DVD drive which i rarely use, is there a way to keep the HDD installed so
it could be used as some sort of quick backup device?
3) What sort of speed improvements are likely on boot up time, and what software would you use to install/ copy over the existing hard drive info?
4) Could a 500GB SSD be used just for frequently used programs/data and the HDD for archive info?, or is the idea to throw away the hard drive when you
install the SSD?, or do you need the same size SSD drive as your existing HDD?
Many thanks for your help / experience !
That are a lot of questions ;-).
Reliability: Meanwhile SSDs have so many write cycles that you should not reach the limit in a normal lifetime of say 5 years. But that only is correct if you do not use the complete SSD - rule of thumb is the SSD should be double the size of used space.
No of SATA inerfaces: There is nothing magically inventing another SATA interface. You can connect two SATA devices. You'll have to use another SATA adapter, internal or external.
Boot time improvement: Immense. Expect a low number of seconds, staying that way all the time. Booting from a HDD usually lasts longer the older the install is.
Cloning software: Most SSDs come with a cloning application, which makes it easy if you do not have to change partition layout much.
Partition and disk size: As said above, you should have at least double the used space of your system partition. For one, a SSD gets significantly slower if it has no time to pre-erase free space while lazy (and erasing is required before writing, and a costly operation). Secondly, having enough free space allows the SSD logic to spread content better around, so memory cell wear is lowered.
Reliability: Meanwhile SSDs have so many write cycles that you should not reach the limit in a normal lifetime of say 5 years. But that only is correct if you do not use the complete SSD - rule of thumb is the SSD should be double the size of used space.
No of SATA inerfaces: There is nothing magically inventing another SATA interface. You can connect two SATA devices. You'll have to use another SATA adapter, internal or external.
Boot time improvement: Immense. Expect a low number of seconds, staying that way all the time. Booting from a HDD usually lasts longer the older the install is.
Cloning software: Most SSDs come with a cloning application, which makes it easy if you do not have to change partition layout much.
Partition and disk size: As said above, you should have at least double the used space of your system partition. For one, a SSD gets significantly slower if it has no time to pre-erase free space while lazy (and erasing is required before writing, and a costly operation). Secondly, having enough free space allows the SSD logic to spread content better around, so memory cell wear is lowered.
If your system has an open PCI slot, you can purchase an inexpensive PCI SATA adapter, use that to control the hard drive, and leave the hard drive where it is. This will provide much better throughput than a USB adapter. It will also provide (at least) one extra SATA socket for future expansion.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=pci+sata+controller+-fan+-%22pci-e%22&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_odkw=pci+sata+controller&LH_TitleDesc=0
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1) Each memory location on an SSD has a finite number of write cycles (it was about 100,000) before the physical structure of the silicon breaks down and the drive begins to fail. Under normal usage; though, that is about 8 to 10 years as long as you disable the weekly defrag task should you clone the original drive. If you do a fresh installation, even 7 knows not to add that task automatically.
3) Traditional drives run 70-200 MBps and SSD's run 300-400 MBps on most of the PC's I have tested them on. More importantly, it takes a traditional drive 12 to 15 milliseconds to seek to a new location whereas an SSD does the same in one millisecond (an advantage of having no moving parts!) The difference in perceived speed is amazing.
2) I would use the DVD's SATA channel as a temporary connection for the SSD during the cloning operation and then remove the old drive entirely. For that to work properly, you really ought to get a 1TB SSD (about $175US right now) so you can copy C and D plus the hidden SYSTEM partition (it's there, you just can't see it except in disk management)
4) The reason I would "clone" the physical 1TB drive is so that nothing else changes. One of the keys to successful IT work is to not change too many things at once and this would be especially true if you have any programs or documents on the D drive.
P.S. Don't forget to get a 2.5 to 3.5 inch adapter bracket or you may have real trouble mounting the SSD in your PC.
3) Traditional drives run 70-200 MBps and SSD's run 300-400 MBps on most of the PC's I have tested them on. More importantly, it takes a traditional drive 12 to 15 milliseconds to seek to a new location whereas an SSD does the same in one millisecond (an advantage of having no moving parts!) The difference in perceived speed is amazing.
2) I would use the DVD's SATA channel as a temporary connection for the SSD during the cloning operation and then remove the old drive entirely. For that to work properly, you really ought to get a 1TB SSD (about $175US right now) so you can copy C and D plus the hidden SYSTEM partition (it's there, you just can't see it except in disk management)
4) The reason I would "clone" the physical 1TB drive is so that nothing else changes. One of the keys to successful IT work is to not change too many things at once and this would be especially true if you have any programs or documents on the D drive.
P.S. Don't forget to get a 2.5 to 3.5 inch adapter bracket or you may have real trouble mounting the SSD in your PC.
To add to the above, my ThinkPad has a Samsung 960 NVMe SSD Drive and the expected life (write cycles) is much longer than the 5 year SSD (and ThinkPad) warranty.
I do not see any issue with a top quality, modern SSD drive.
I do not see any issue with a top quality, modern SSD drive.
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I have done this with a dozen computers. The Samsung drives I purchased came with software to get the job done. Just make sure you have a single for us to the drive.
Going to an ssd is like a brand new computer as far as speed.
Going to an ssd is like a brand new computer as far as speed.
Nobody has mentioned yet that when SSDs reach their end of life they do not corrupt the data, they go into read-only mode so the data can still be recovered.
I was perhaps not as clear as I could have been. My Samsung SSD end of life exceed the computer lifetime.
1) I have yet to see an SSD dying, after about 10 years of using them. During same period, I saw quite a few traditional HD's dying. From what I see, SSD is much more reliable. I have one SSD even on a computer that does not have SATA interfaces at all, it's connected through IDE-to-SATA adapter, and works fine. You can do the same.
2) Whether this is SSD or "traditional" HD, is fully transparent to the operating system. Their electronic interfaces with the computer are the same. There's nothing that would make an SSD seen differently by the operating system.
3) Improvements - huge. If you have to make a choice, install on SSD operating system, frequently-used programs and such. Leave documents on the slow drive.
4) You can use any combination.
2) Whether this is SSD or "traditional" HD, is fully transparent to the operating system. Their electronic interfaces with the computer are the same. There's nothing that would make an SSD seen differently by the operating system.
3) Improvements - huge. If you have to make a choice, install on SSD operating system, frequently-used programs and such. Leave documents on the slow drive.
4) You can use any combination.
Regarding the lifetime you may have to run "fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify 0" to enable TRIM, not sure Windows 7 does it automatically.
what pc do you have? desk -or -laptop?
in a desktop, you can easily install other drives, as data, or backup devices - not so on laptops, unless you use external (usb - or lan) devices
i am using SSD for more than 5 years, and have used, Samsung, kingston and intel ones - without a problem .... till last week
i am still investigating this problem, to find out if it comes from the SSD or motherboard, or software
but i find an SSD the ONLY upgrade worth every cent !
in a desktop, you can easily install other drives, as data, or backup devices - not so on laptops, unless you use external (usb - or lan) devices
i am using SSD for more than 5 years, and have used, Samsung, kingston and intel ones - without a problem .... till last week
i am still investigating this problem, to find out if it comes from the SSD or motherboard, or software
but i find an SSD the ONLY upgrade worth every cent !
ASKER
Firstly, thank you for the shared wisdom of so many experts.. real world experience is the best in every way vs theory !
I had a look at the idea of keeping the existing hard drive installed, and found that the desktop has got a PCI 2.0 express(x1) free slot alongside another longer (i guess x16 slot). So perhaps I can use an adapter in the x1 one to give me a couple more SATA ports which i can hook the old DVD drive into while keeping the HDD as an extra drive? had a look into these and found some dual port ones based on the ASM1061 chipset - any experience of these? I guess not too important as will only be the CD using this port..
One other question is this.. does anyone miss the sound of a mechanical hard drive?, for me and bearing in mind how many hours of your life are spent waiting for windows to do (something.. who know what its doing at times!).. hearing that the hard drive is busy making a lot of noise is the only indication that it probably is doing something valid and isnt locked up in a loop.. its a similar reflection on electric/hybrid cars, as you cant hear them coming like a conventional engined car, and i suspect this lack of sound has caused a few low speed pedestrian accidents in recent times.. just a thought .. also the absence of any drive light that you might have found on pc's of yesteryear leaves little clue as to why it isnt responding.. im guessing with an SSD only machine your in the dark here..
Boot times on this machine, are around 1min30 to the desktop icons updating, and then you get the appearance that windows is ready (but of course its not really), lots more disc activity in the background and slow response to opening programs goes on for a further few mins) i guess its busy doing something.. so this roughly equates to go make a cup of coffee and when you return it might be ready !
Brings me to another question re the existing HDD, will you still hear it humming away, or can it be made to 'sleep' until accessed or if your using as a 'backup only' internal device can it be spun down, and only 'enabled' when you do a backup?
I had a look at the idea of keeping the existing hard drive installed, and found that the desktop has got a PCI 2.0 express(x1) free slot alongside another longer (i guess x16 slot). So perhaps I can use an adapter in the x1 one to give me a couple more SATA ports which i can hook the old DVD drive into while keeping the HDD as an extra drive? had a look into these and found some dual port ones based on the ASM1061 chipset - any experience of these? I guess not too important as will only be the CD using this port..
One other question is this.. does anyone miss the sound of a mechanical hard drive?, for me and bearing in mind how many hours of your life are spent waiting for windows to do (something.. who know what its doing at times!).. hearing that the hard drive is busy making a lot of noise is the only indication that it probably is doing something valid and isnt locked up in a loop.. its a similar reflection on electric/hybrid cars, as you cant hear them coming like a conventional engined car, and i suspect this lack of sound has caused a few low speed pedestrian accidents in recent times.. just a thought .. also the absence of any drive light that you might have found on pc's of yesteryear leaves little clue as to why it isnt responding.. im guessing with an SSD only machine your in the dark here..
Boot times on this machine, are around 1min30 to the desktop icons updating, and then you get the appearance that windows is ready (but of course its not really), lots more disc activity in the background and slow response to opening programs goes on for a further few mins) i guess its busy doing something.. so this roughly equates to go make a cup of coffee and when you return it might be ready !
Brings me to another question re the existing HDD, will you still hear it humming away, or can it be made to 'sleep' until accessed or if your using as a 'backup only' internal device can it be spun down, and only 'enabled' when you do a backup?
does anyone miss the sound of a mechanical hard drive?, <-- No, not at all on my laptop. Also my desktop computer as two 1 TB hard drives and they are nearly inaudible - no humming.
little clue as to why it isn't responding.. I'm guessing with an SSD only machine your in the dark here.. <-- No loss. Task Manager tells me what is going on, or not going on. SSD Drives are common and there are tools to determine problems.
existing HDD, will you still hear it humming away, or can it be made to 'sleep' <-- Yes, Device Manager, disk drive power management.
Windows 7 is now really old. So consider a newer machine with Windows 10 and SSD drives. No need for additional hard drives. I have a laptop with a 1 TB SSD drive and no need for yet more space. When I replace the desktop, it will be much smaller and come only with SSD drivers.
little clue as to why it isn't responding.. I'm guessing with an SSD only machine your in the dark here.. <-- No loss. Task Manager tells me what is going on, or not going on. SSD Drives are common and there are tools to determine problems.
existing HDD, will you still hear it humming away, or can it be made to 'sleep' <-- Yes, Device Manager, disk drive power management.
Windows 7 is now really old. So consider a newer machine with Windows 10 and SSD drives. No need for additional hard drives. I have a laptop with a 1 TB SSD drive and no need for yet more space. When I replace the desktop, it will be much smaller and come only with SSD drivers.
you did not answer my question : repeat : what pc do you have?
normally a desktop can hold 4 sata drives minimum
normally a desktop can hold 4 sata drives minimum
Re hard drive noise being the only indication of activity - not so, usually there is a separate LED for that, in addition to power led. The pin for that led is present on every motherboard and is usually connected to the led in the chassis.
after the bios startup - it does not take 20 sec for a full startup with an SSD.
a couple more SATA ports which i can hook the old DVD drive into while keeping the HDD as an extra drive?
Indeed and why wouldn't you? The PCI cards are cheap as chips and just like RAM, there's always room for more storage space, regardless of how much you might "need" at any given time. I'm old enough to remember when installers and programs themselves were measured in terms of KBs and MBs in size, GB was a term few had heard of. How long before that turns into TBs? :)
some dual port ones based on the ASM1061 chipset - any experience of these? I guess not too important as will only be the CD using this port..
You've answered your own question there imo.
does anyone miss the sound of a mechanical hard drive?
Perhaps a little, especially when troubleshooting machines. The days of holding a screwdriver to a drive like a doctors stethoscope to observe how it was spinning up compared to the "normal" drive noises I often found quite useful and it sure made for an impressive look when clients would marvel at your skills. But for day to day use? Never!
then you get the appearance that windows is ready (but of course its not really), lots more disc activity in the background and slow response to opening programs goes on for a further few mins)
That won't change a great deal in my experience. Windows is a pig and has always given the impression that it's ready to use when it's not. One thing I think you will notice is that it takes considerably less time for it to be "really ready"
Brings me to another question re the existing HDD, will you still hear it humming away, or can it be made to 'sleep' until accessed or if your using as a 'backup only' internal device can it be spun down, and only 'enabled' when you do a backup?
As a secondary drive, I don't notice mine at all and the noise it may make is likely overpowered by the cooling fans, which are barely noticeable on my system at all. YMMV, depending on the make and type of your drive. Yes, it can be made to sleep, though I've never bothered to do that myself unless Windows itself took care of that itself without my telling it to. It's always immediately responsive whenever I access it though, so I doubt there's any "sleeping" going on there.
real world experience is the best in every way vs theory !
Never a truer word said! :)
Cheers... Andrew
I upgraded my LENOVO laptop to a Sansung SSD and the process was very simple and easy using the Samsung supplied software
I bought a SATA drive sled to replace my DVD drive, installed the SSD in that, cloned my HDD using the Samsung software (real easy)
I then physically swapped the HDD and the SSD, so the HDD is now in the sled and it all booted nicely and has worked great ever since
Biggest bonus was getting rid of the 10 minutes after boot when with the HDD it was very slow with the disk running at 100% utilisation, with the SSD this slowdown was not there at all (obviously due to the increase in IOPS from something like 100 to 30K)
I bought a SATA drive sled to replace my DVD drive, installed the SSD in that, cloned my HDD using the Samsung software (real easy)
I then physically swapped the HDD and the SSD, so the HDD is now in the sled and it all booted nicely and has worked great ever since
Biggest bonus was getting rid of the 10 minutes after boot when with the HDD it was very slow with the disk running at 100% utilisation, with the SSD this slowdown was not there at all (obviously due to the increase in IOPS from something like 100 to 30K)
note that you can make the image of the drive with many free softwares, like paragon, AOMEI, etc...
ASKER
Just thought i should post an update on how it went, i ended up going for a samsung 1TB SSD so same size as old WD HDD to keep things simple (interesting that WD have bought sandisk), although the Sandisk product kind of gives the impression that its dashboard can do the job of cloning from the old HDD reality is it really doent do very much apart from showing you some health info and usage, also seems very slow to run but perhaps its scanning the entire SSD before it reports anything?
I tried to use the Acronis truimage to do the cloning, but having installed it it seems the free version doesn't do this, also seems a very sluggish program, so i uninstalled and tried Macriums reflect which does allow you to clone on the free trial version, and also tells you a lot more about how its progressing with copying over the hard drive which is a great improvement over the win10 style spinning dots where your wondering if its doing anything ! .. so thumbs up to Macrium for writing some user interactive software ! it reported a speed of i think
1.5GB/sec on completing, the SATA port on the seems to be 3 GB, so i guess thats okayish!
I then just swapped over the HDD and SSD ports to see if it would boot, and all went very smoothly, although windows seemed to need to find a driver for the sandisk SSD, but apart from that it was a much faster bootup as hoped for,,,
Have recently been trying to disable startup programs that i rarely use, as part of the cleanup
I found this site very useful for checking thru what else needed to be adjusted, esp as written for win7:
Editor sean
I did the fsutil to enable trim, and also checked AHCI was enabled, also disabled 'indexing' as this was suggested and ensured that auto defrag was disabled..
Hibernate seems to work fine, as before and i often use this,
A few questions,..
Some post seem to suggest disabling hibernation or sleep modes, not sure why ? surely they wake up more quickly than powering off even with the SSD speedup ?
Pagefile is set to 4GB as previously (the motherboard only has 4GB ram currently) does this seem a good size to use?, and would there be much speed increase from increasing the ram?
Anything else i should check?
Thanks in advance for the useful info thus far experts,
I tried to use the Acronis truimage to do the cloning, but having installed it it seems the free version doesn't do this, also seems a very sluggish program, so i uninstalled and tried Macriums reflect which does allow you to clone on the free trial version, and also tells you a lot more about how its progressing with copying over the hard drive which is a great improvement over the win10 style spinning dots where your wondering if its doing anything ! .. so thumbs up to Macrium for writing some user interactive software ! it reported a speed of i think
1.5GB/sec on completing, the SATA port on the seems to be 3 GB, so i guess thats okayish!
I then just swapped over the HDD and SSD ports to see if it would boot, and all went very smoothly, although windows seemed to need to find a driver for the sandisk SSD, but apart from that it was a much faster bootup as hoped for,,,
Have recently been trying to disable startup programs that i rarely use, as part of the cleanup
I found this site very useful for checking thru what else needed to be adjusted, esp as written for win7:
Editor sean
I did the fsutil to enable trim, and also checked AHCI was enabled, also disabled 'indexing' as this was suggested and ensured that auto defrag was disabled..
Hibernate seems to work fine, as before and i often use this,
A few questions,..
Some post seem to suggest disabling hibernation or sleep modes, not sure why ? surely they wake up more quickly than powering off even with the SSD speedup ?
Pagefile is set to 4GB as previously (the motherboard only has 4GB ram currently) does this seem a good size to use?, and would there be much speed increase from increasing the ram?
Anything else i should check?
Thanks in advance for the useful info thus far experts,
ASKER
The sata port is V3 (6GB) but shows link speed as 3GB in the sandisk SSD dashboard does this sound normal?
Unless your computer Sata connector was engineered for 6 GB (unlikely with Windows 7), it will stay at 3 GB.
https://editorsean.com/articles/clone-hdd-ssd-windows-7-software/
I will voice my opinions for the unanswered in that article...
1) yes... SSD's have a max rewrite issue... this is why you should NOT ever try to compress/defrag them! How this compares to HD is speed v reliability v longevity
2) You can purchase an external "shell" to house either your optical drive or old HD and continue to use via an external USB connection
3) This is answered in the link provided... You can either clone your old drive or do a fresh install onto the SSD
4) Your SSD needs to be as big as (or larger than) the HDD... If smaller, you would to do a reinstall on the SSD.
Of course you can keep the old drive; it is common to do so... You can pick up a USB shell for the old drive (cost around $20-$40) and use it externally, given your motherboard constraints.