TOP margin print problem

i have a weird problem with printing.
software used : Word2016, OS =windows 10  - Both 64 biteverything re garding printing is fine except the top margin.
i set  a TOP margin at 1cm - and it prints at 3,2 cm. in the margin section
i set the top margin at 3,5 cm and it prints at 4 ,8cm

i tried this on 2 different systems and 2 different printers HP B109a and HP c4180

what can be the cause? or how can i get a correct top margin on my prints???
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nobusAsked:
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JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
I am not sure. I am using Windows 10 Pro 64-bit and Office 2016 32-bit.  

In Word, I use a Normal Style and I set my top margin at 0.2 inches (about 1 cm) and it printed that way (HP8610 Printer).

Do you have a Header (or Footer) established which is larger than the small margin you want?
Did you change the Normal Style?
Did you use the vertical Ruler to change the margin, or, did you use Layout, Page Setting to change the margin.

Is Office up to date?  New updates for Subscription and Volume License in the last 5 or 6 days.

I cannot replicate this problem so I am not sure.

Follow up Note:  Do an Office Repair (you probably already did).
nobusAuthor Commented:
No header, no style used - i used page layout-margins
office repair?  it did that on a fresh install -  directly after installing office, and the printer
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
I wonder if it is a 64-bit Office issue. That is the only difference from what I use
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nobusAuthor Commented:
well - i'm gonna try the 32 bit version
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Please keep us posted. I replicated your situation here and it worked perfectly
nobusAuthor Commented:
my answer will be tomorrow
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Thanks
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
nobus,

Have you checked the advanced settings in the printer drivers and software? I l struck this same problem years ago and know I've struck printers in the past that would over-ride the settings in Word or whatever program was being used to print from. The client would do a print preview and everything would look fine, yet when printed, the margins were wrong. Took ages to nail down, but eventually, it came down to the Printer's settings and drivers. I wish I could remember the printer name and model, but checking through my notes, I'm sorry I didn't make a note of that information and now can't remember.

Just something you may want to look at.

Regards, Andrew
nobusAuthor Commented:
Abdrew, can you tell me where to find them ?  i have for both printers the same HP solution center software
nobusAuthor Commented:
John, it looked like a good idea, but no dice - same result
Andrew, i have posted some screenshots from the HP solution center; if you could tell m123e where the settings are i have to change ?
on the first page, normal print is selected - not shown , sorry
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
You have set for A4 paper.  Does the printer do A4 paper size?  

Can you try, as a test,  8.5 x 11  letter size paper?   I know that is not a standard size where you are.
nobusAuthor Commented:
yes it is on A4 and he does it ( i print as i Always do
i will test ,the other size
nobusAuthor Commented:
ok - i tested with the  8.5 x 11  letter size , same problem
i also uninstalled office 2016, and tested with office 2013 - probleml remains
so it really starts looking like a HP software problem to me
i looked more into details of the printer and found it uses a configuration file in the advanced settings : UNIDRVUI.DLL
it  also has the HPReal life technology enabled

can somebody tell me if one of the above is the cause, or what they are supposed to do ?
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
My printer is an HP8610.  I use the Windows 10 drivers and the HP Windows 10 App to scan and other printer functions as the HP supplied driver is from 2015 and does not work well.

I do not have your printers, but you might try using the Windows 10 drivers.  So, uninstall the printer completely including the Driver from Printer Server Management.

Then restart and let Windows install the printer.   Does that work?
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
where the settings are i have to change ?
I don't see anything obvious there nobus. Just explore those settings. I've just rechecked my notes and went back to past invoices but I didn't list the printer model or brand on my invoice and the client is now out of business.

One thing - can you translate "Zonder rand" for me? I'm getting some different definitions from web translators

I'd also suggest trying different version drivers. If yours are current, try grabbing a copy of an earlier driver just to test with.

looked more into details of the printer and found it uses a configuration file in the advanced settings : UNIDRVUI.DLL
it  also has the HPReal life technology enabled
can somebody tell me if one of the above is the cause, or what they are supposed to do ?

Some interesting info on HPReal Life Technologies at this webpage that explains what it is. Are you able to disable it in HP Toolbox to see if it makes a difference?

Curious about the cause of this myself now. If I come across another client using the same printer, I'll check to see if they have a similar problem.
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
Just to add to my last, I have a "HP Color LaserJet Pro MFP M177fw" installed as one of my printers to this box (networked) and can't reproduce the problem here either. Selecting A4 or 8.5 x 11 settings doesn't seem to make a difference here - still prints fine and respects my margins?!

The only difference between your config and mine are the printers obviously, and I'm using 32-bit Office instead of 64-bit.

Hmmm... wonder if that could have anything to do with it? ( 64-bit )

Would you be willing to share your "Normal.dotm" Word Template file so that I could try printing a document with your Template installed in Word 2016? I'm wondering if there could be anything screwy going on there?
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
so it really starts looking like a HP software problem to me

I am not entirely sure one way or the other.

1. If Printer software, try using the Windows 10 drivers as noted above.
2. If Word, then try a new Windows User Profile (Account). Make a new, test, Windows User Profile, log into the new Windows Profile, set up Word and test.
nobusAuthor Commented:
Andrew, zonder rand = without border, or borderless

i'll try a recap :
2 different printers have the same problem
they use the same software, (but different drivers
i tested with 64 and 32 bit, OS and  OFFIce

i'll try without software and standard windows 10 drivers ( note that the HP site says they are w10 compatible)
hdhondtCommented:
Hi nobus

A couple of quick questions.

How does the Word print preview look? Does that show the correct top marging?
Have you tried it with a totally different printer, even PDF or XPS printer?
nobusAuthor Commented:
>>  How does the Word print preview look? Does that show the correct top marging?   YES, and horizontall margins print ok when changed
>>  Have you tried it with a totally different printer, even PDF or XPS printer?    <<  not yet, i have not many printers available

i also tested with win 10 drivers, after removibg all HP software - same problem
hdhondtCommented:
"Microsoft XPS Document Writer" and "Microsoft Print to PDF" drivers come standard with Win 10.

If Word is the only application with the problem, have you tried to repair Office?
nobusAuthor Commented:
hdhondt, how will xps writer  or print to pdf help?  they both print to a file, and my document + preview are ok and show correct margin.
in anycase i will test it ( and i know they are standard)
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
hdhondt, how will xps writer  or print to pdf help?  they both print to a file, and my document + preview are ok and show correct margin.
I think I know why that suggestion was made, and I also think it could be a useful "workaround" rather than a solution you could use until you've nutted out the cause.

When you print to a PDF file, then "if" the margins are respected in the PDF, then that would reinforce the problem is something to do with the HP drivers and associated software installed. Printing the document from a PDF rather than Word is similar to printing a picture - a PDF is treated somewhat like an image, so your paper print should come out ok and the way you want.

That suggestion should actually turn out to be a fairly easy workaround. I'd have to give it some more thought if the PDF saves with the wrong margins though. I'll be interested to read the results of your test.
nobusAuthor Commented:
i intalled acrobat reader, then printed to pdf writer
the document shows no rulers, but when printed, the 1 cm top marging was at 3.2 Cm, so nothing changed
i also printed to xps, but cannot open the document - in what format should i save it, and what software is used to open it? i went to windows store, but did not see something aplicable right away ( sorry for my ignorance, but i never used that)
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
Hi nobus,
the document shows no rulers, but when printed, the 1 cm top marging was at 3.2 Cm, so nothing changed
That was a worthy exercise as it confirms my earlier suspicion that this is almost certainly a printer settings/driver related problem. Nothing to do with Microsoft Word. Have you tried different versions (earlier or later) of the Printer software and drivers?

i also printed to xps, but cannot open the document - in what format should i save it, and what software is used to open it?

The XPS file can be used to view, share, save, and protect the content of your document. There is a large amount of Windows programs that can be used to create an XPS file. However, you can only view, sign, and specify permissions of an XPS file through XPS Viewer. Also, once you save the XPS contents in the XPS format, you can no longer edit the XPS file.

XPS was designed as a replacement for the Enhanced Metafile (.EMF) format. It is similar to a .PDF file, but is based on XML instead of the PostScript language. XPS files can be created in Windows by selecting the "Microsoft XPS Document Writer" as the printer when printing a document.

NOTE: XPS files can be opened with Microsoft's XPS Viewer, which is included with Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Internet Explorer 6 or later. It is also part of the XPS Essentials Pack, which can be downloaded from Microsoft and used with Windows XP.

Source: https://fileinfo.com/extension/xps - The site also lists a number of programs that can view XPS files.

Microsoft's XPS Viewer was originally distributed with Windows XP and Windows 7 - Microsoft stopped distributing their XPS Viewer when Windows 10 came out so I'm not sure that the Microsoft viewer would still work, even if I could find a download link for it.

Here's a Freeware XPS Viewer you can download and try - https://xps_viewer.en.downloadastro.com/

I've never used the above myself, but it says it will work on Windows 10.

That said, I'd try it but I now doubt it will make any difference myself. I'm convinced this issue is to do with the Printer software, settings, or drivers.

Regards, Andrew
hdhondtCommented:
I have access to 2 Win 10 PCs and both have the Microsoft XPS Viewer installed out of the box, so I can't see why @nobus does not. If it somehow went missing, it can be reinstalled from Windows Features, as follows:

a.       Press Windows key + W from the keyboard.
b.      Type Turn Windows features on or off without quotes in the search box and hit enter.
c.       Remove the check mark next to XPS Services and XPS Printer click on OK.
d.      Restart the computer.
e.       Follow step a and b to open Windows Features.
f.        Place checkmark next to XPS Services and XPS Printer.
g.       Click on OK.

the document shows no rulers, but when printed, the 1 cm top marging was at 3.2 Cm
Does that mean that the margin only shows up when printing, or also when you view the PDF on screen (and ditto for the XPS file)? If it shows only when printing then the problem is in the printer driver; if it shows up on-screen as well, then the problem is with Word.
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
@hdhondt,

I have access to 2 Win 10 PCs and both have the Microsoft XPS Viewer installed out of the box, so I can't see why @nobus does not.

Did you upgrade those boxes from Windows 7, or do a clean install of Windows 10? I suspect the former.

If it somehow went missing, it can be reinstalled from Windows Features, as follows:

It didn't go missing, it's simply not there. The article and instructions you've linked to are from January 2013 and deal with Window 8.

Here's a snapshot of my (freshly installed) copy of Windows 10 Pro Windows Features option. Note that Microsoft XPS Viewer is no longer available for enabling.

Turn Windows features On or Off
Cheers, Andrew
hdhondtCommented:
@Andrew
A couple of things.

1. One PC was brand new, the other a Win 7 upgrade
2. The instructions I gave are for Win 8 - my mistake. In Win 10, you need to go to Control Panel, Printers & Features, and click on "Turn Windows features on and off". I couldn't find it at first on my PC, but Cortana told me. So much (again) for the way over-hyped Win 8/8.1/10 Settings :-( Good old Control Panel rules.
3. I have attached a screenshot of my features. You need to look under Microsoft, not under Windows.Programs-and-Features.png
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
@hdhondt,

What you're seeing there in your copy of Windows 10 is the same as what I and nobus have. The Microsoft XPS Document Writer - nobus has already confirmed he was successfully able to create an XPS document - what he wanted to know was what software was required to "view" the contents. That used to be simplicity itself by just using the included Microsoft XPS Viewer - which is no longer distributed with Windows 10.

XPS Document Writer - Not Viewer
Make sense?

If not, create an XPS document yourself and then try to view it. You'll find that (unless you've installed an XPS viewer of some type) Windows 10 won't know what to do with it and likely send you to the Microsoft store to try and find a viewer.

Regards, Andrew
nobusAuthor Commented:
hey guys, good info; so by asking one q i get the answer to a couple more.  Keep going, - interesting stuff for me
hdhondtCommented:
I tried viewing an XPS document and it works fine. OK, here's a link to set up the XPS viewer:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-get-xps-viewer-app-back-windows-10-april-2018-update

According to that site, the XPS viewer was only retired from the V1803 upgrade. However, if you had an older version, the viewer would continue to stay available after the upgrade. It only disappears with a clean install of V1803 or later - but can still be re-activated by following the instructions in that link.

On my PC at least, XPS viewer only shows under "Manage optional features". It does not show under Apps & Features, yet it is available and it works just fine.

@nobus As per my earlier post, do the incorrect margins show in the PDF when viewing it on screen, or only when the PDF is printed?
nobusAuthor Commented:
since no ruler shows in pdf, i'm not 100% sure, but it looks like the bad margin - 3.2 cm
hdhondtCommented:
In that case the problem must be in Word. I looked through the comments, and it appears one question has never been asked: what happens if you print from any other application, e.g. your browser? If you are running Chrome or Opera you can check both the print preview and the actual print.

Please try that and let us know. If that prints correctly then you may need to repair Word or do a full reinstall.
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
nobus,

Not sure if you missed this or whether you chose not to do it.

Would you be willing to share your "Normal.dotm" Word Template file so that I could try printing a document with your Template installed in Word 2016? I'm wondering if there could be anything screwy going on there?

I'd like to try and reproduce the problem using your normal.dotm template on my own copy of word, given that I can't reproduce it myself with my own printer configuration. If you're happy to share that file, you'll find it in the following location;

C:\Users\_Your_Profile_Name_\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Templates

Regards, Andrew
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
Further to the above, if nothing sensitive in these documents, please also share a .docx and a .pdf which look fine in print preview for you, but print with the incorrect margins.

Thanks, Andrew
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
@hdhondt,

On my PC at least, XPS viewer only shows under "Manage optional features". It does not show under Apps & Features, yet it is available and it works just fine.

Indeed. I just checked there and you're quite right.

XPS Viewer
Once enabled, I was able to use it. Good detective works there hdhondt. Another seemingly pointless change Microsoft has made for no apparent benefit.
hdhondtCommented:
@Andrew As far as I'm concerned, the last working version of Windows was Win7. Win8 was a disaster, and Win10 copies many of Win8's idiocies. For example, after all these years of trying they still cannot get Settings to be a full replacement for Control Panel. I've even had situations where Settings took you back to Control Panel to complete a setting! I have several questions with EE about Win10 issues I have, most of which were never resolved.

As far as I'm concerned, Win10 was a pointless change from Win7, with no apparent benefit.
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
As far as I'm concerned, Win10 was a pointless change from Win7, with no apparent benefit.
You've won that argument hdhondt :)

I find that Microsoft always uses "enhanced and better security" as a selling point to get everyone keen to upgrade to their newest and latest OS UI, but they never really explain "why" or "how" it's more secure than the current version, or why their current version couldn't have just been improved with those better security features.

Ever since Windows 98, I've yet to see them be honest and just say, "hey, this will work better on your Windows Tablets and Touch Phone screens" - When Windows 8 first came out, I thought my son (who is not averse to technology changes) absolutely nailed it when he declared it to be an operating system with a dysfunctional iPad nailed onto the top of it. :)

But we digress from the purpose of this question and perhaps this discussion would be better suited in another forum.

(Sorry nobus)
nobusAuthor Commented:
@hdhondt  i uninstalled office 64 bit, and installed 32 bit did not help; then i installed Office 2013 - same problem
i just installed the XPS viewer, - printing shows the same problem

andrew, attached the normal.dotm and normalpre.dotm
Normal.dotm
NormalPre.dotm
hdhondtCommented:
i just installed the XPS viewer, - printing shows the same problem
But my question was: does it show the problem when you view the XPS/PDF on screen?
nobusAuthor Commented:
i think it shows it, but without rulers, i cannot be 100% sure
also, keep in mind this problem happens on another printer model too
hdhondtCommented:
If both the XPS and PDF files have the wide margin, then we can exclude the driver or printer as the problem. Hence it has to be a Word problem.

The first thing to try is to repair Office (from Control Panel > Programs and features). If that does not work, try uninstalling and reinstalling Office. As a last resort, create a new user, install Office and the printer for that user, and see if the new user also has the problem.

Mind you, my PC has a weird Office problem that is not fixed by any of my suggestions...
nobusAuthor Commented:
i have installed and uninstalled office, as you see above, 2016, and 2013 in version 32 or 64 bit
i'm about to try installing windows 7 as test - maybe you can try that also in your other Q

@dhondt, what is the XPS viewer used for?  i have no idea
hdhondtCommented:
Sorry I overlooked your earlier tests with Office. And I wish I had insisted on Win7 for my PC when I bought it early in 2016.

Re XPS: about all I can think of is that M$ wanted to take marketshare from Adobe, without gaining anything from it. Adobe at least make money from the Acrobat suite - it's only Reader that's free.

I think M$ had the intention that printers would start supporting it for direct downloads. I believe a couple of printers did, but the whole thing died quickly.

I have one use for it. The place where I work (volunteer work, I'm 75) insists the only access to the printer is via a file on USB, handed in to the front desk. In that case it's useful to be able to print to XPS, so the front desk can print it from the XPS viewer. And even that need disappeared when they installed the M$ PDF printer :-(
nobusAuthor Commented:
no need to apoligise -  i verlook things myself too
so in fact you're saying the XPS viewer was a n analog for Acrobat reader?  then i suppose there was a writer too ?

btw - i just installed win7 + updates, now office, and i'm ready to test
hdhondtCommented:
There are many PDF writers, including the M$ PDF printers, but as far as I know there is only one XPS writer, the XPS printer driver. Unlike PDF, XPS never became commonly accepted, so no third parties joined in.
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
andrew, attached the normal.dotm and normalpre.dotm

Thanks nobus. Can you also whip up and attach a sample .docx document and also upload it here?

One that displays correctly for you when viewed with Print Preview, yet when printed, prints with incorrect margins. Include in the body of the document some text that describes exactly what your margins are set to. I will try to reproduce the error on my own copy of Word 2016.

If my suspicions are correct, then this will almost certainly have to do with your Printer drivers and software, but I need to confirm a couple of things first.
nobusAuthor Commented:
here it is andrew
as you see the margin is set at top = 1cm, horizontal = 5 cm
i can change the horizontal and it prints Always correct
Printer-Margin-test.docx
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
Thanks nobus, got it. Give me some time to fiddle and test and I'll get back to you.
nobusAuthor Commented:
i installed windows 7 on a spare hdd and spent 2 days updating it, and installing office.
i noticed that windiows does not have a native driver for the Photosmart b109a printer
does this mean i need to install the software from HP (i wanted to test first with the windows driver)
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
I always use the HP software if I can
nobusAuthor Commented:
John, normally i do the same, now i wanted tot test first with the windows driver
why doesn't it install one?  it shows in  the devices and printers -  with an error, since no driver is installed;
however,in device manager it shows 4 x the B109a under other devices, and only 3 times in error??  i wonder what these are : printer, scanner and ???
o
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
One is printer; one is scanner; there is a duplicate scanner (I don't know why);  the remaining one is an unknown device (again I don't know why)

My machine just shows one device.

Windows 10 Printer Device
nobusAuthor Commented:
hé guys  . . . time to comment plse !
hdhondtCommented:
@nobus

I just printed the docx you posted. It prints with a wide top margin, but I noticed its paper size is Letter, not A4. When I change the size to A4 (in Page Layout), the margin is correct. The discrepancy would be caused by the fact that Letter is 279 mm long, vs 297 for A4. My printer is a Fuji Xerox CM305DF, but the same will apply to yours.

The fact that a new Word document is Letter size implies the driver settings are incorrect. Word is somewhat finicky and behaves differently from many other applications.

Start by checking the default paper size setting for the printer. Go to Printer Properties > Advanced and click the Printing Defaults button. Set the paper size and click OK. Now click the General tab, the Printing Preferences button, and make sure the paper size is A4 there too. Change it if necessary.

Word uses the default printer's default settings when you start Word. If you change printers in Word, the default paper size for that printer will be used for a new document.

Existing documents are not changed when you change printers; you must go to the Page Layout tab and set it manually. The same goes for things like paper type and trays, etc. All this can cause really weird problems when you change printers, as Word will try to match printer settings, not always with the expected result.

I should add that in Word, unlike most other applications, changing the paper size from the Print dialogue box does not work. Word will ignore it. Instead you must change it from Page Setup (Page Layout). When you do that, Word will repaginate the document to the new paper size.

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Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
hé guys  . . . time to comment plse !

Sorry nobus, I've been a little tied up with more pressing issues. I'll do my tests later today and get back to you.

Regards, Andrew
nobusAuthor Commented:
ok guys the big cigar goes to  . . . tatata….tatata …. HDHONDT
i must say this Q has learned me a lot

hdhondt; thank you very much;
 i don't kno how the page setting got changed; but apparently it did ( i never change the paper size )
but hey - it's solved
nobusAuthor Commented:
when distributing points, i found that

andrew posted  one referring to advanced printer settings, and JOHN made me change to letter
i simply forgot to set it back; maybe that was all that was needed in the end

but i learned a couple of things, so than k you all
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Thanks for the update.
nobusAuthor Commented:
i say thanks  again to dhondt for his detailed and clear explanation of the settings in word - i did not know that
Andrew LeniartIT Consultant & Freelance JournalistCommented:
Nice work hdhondt
hdhondtCommented:
My pleasure, and thanks for the points.
nobusAuthor Commented:
it is Always difficult to find the solution for seemingly simple problems.
hdhondtCommented:
One reason why I took so long to twig is the simple fact that I assumed that, with a Letter paper selection and A4 paper loaded, the extra margin would be at the bottom of the page. So I ignored that possibility until I saw your test document. Just goes to show that the old saying is right: assume makes an ass out of u and me ;-)

And the interaction between the printer, the driver and Word is something that causes lots of confusion. And, other Office packages like Excel and PowerPoint do not work in exactly the same way...
nobusAuthor Commented:
>>   assume makes an ass out of u and me ;-)  <<< makes me think of my teacher, saying  don't think - test
>>  And, other Office packages like Excel and PowerPoint do not work in exactly the same way...   How nice MS gives us a real treat..
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