Got a new job

Camillia
Camillia used Ask the Experts™
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(I don't know where to put this so I put in C#/ASP.Net category)..

For those of you who've been helping me and know I've been dealing with an abusive and moody manager for almost a year... I accepted an offer today.  I've been practicing my resignation since my manager blew up on me in January...over some silly SQL indentation... can you believe it?!...but now I'm not happy about it. Why is it so easy for companies to see good people come and go but so hard to dicipline a manager? (I'm the 3rd one leaving this company). Why is it so easy to see good people come and go but so hard to send a manager to training?

The position I accepted is a little outdated in technology. They said it's Web Forms and Crystal Reports but open to upgrades.  Another developer does Angular and web stuff. Someone else does other stuff. Solid company and the owner also spoke with me. Seemed like a really nice person and my future manager said he has no tolerance for bad behavior.

I had another potential offer that with more recent technologies but they were taking their time and they're like a startup. They've already had layoffs and the company has been bought out. I chose the solid company with a good 401K (I'm getting older and not younger :)) , 3 weeks of vacation and a little increase in my salary. I chose a manager over technology (I read an article on LinkedIn about it). They did say they're looking into AI and new stuff. I do side projects so I can keep up with newer technologies.

I think I want someone here to tell me working with Web Forms is ok :)

I'll be posting all new questions when I start my new job :) Just wanted to let you know guys know.  As always, I really apperciate all the help and advice here.
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Top Rated Freelancer on MS Technologies
Awarded 2018
Distinguished Expert 2018
Commented:
Well, you do already know that web forms are old technology, and as long as you feel good in one place or the other.

I think that you should be in the place where you feel estimated as professional and not a woman :)
So it's a fact that we all are getting old and not younger. So in my personal humble opinion if a company has no tolerance for bad behavior), you'd need to be clear is what is considered by them as "bad behavior", because that can be that you argue to a manager, when the manager is not right, or it can be any other options and probable situations

So I think you do need to work where you feel comfortable, if they in the interview already said you "this is a hardworking company" and all the employees must work 10 hours a day, it clearly indicates that you're gonna get exploited an employee, and that company probably is not the best option.

The way they are watching you in the interview and their tone and questions can be interpreted by you as well, so you can see beforehand what you can expect of those people or companies.

Some thoughts for you :)
and Good look in whatever you decide to work with.
Most Valuable Expert 2013
Commented:
Happy at work is worth so much more.
Congratulations :)
John TsioumprisSoftware & Systems Engineer
Commented:
I am a "victim" of this moto ...so i think when it comes to jobs
Don't pick a job. Pick a Boss
OWASP: Avoiding Hacker Tricks

Learn to build secure applications from the mindset of the hacker and avoid being exploited.

Don't pick a job. Pick a Boss

This is what I did this time. Windows Forms might be old by my peace of mind is worth a lot.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)
Most Valuable Expert 2012
Expert of the Year 2018
Commented:
I think I want someone here to tell me working with Web Forms is ok :)

Better to work for a new manager and be happier.  You can learn "old" technology and help them with new.

I have generally been happy with my two main employers many years ago and not so happy with one that was a short term employment and does not show up anywhere.

I work for myself now (about 17 years now) and select clients carefully. I keep major clients for years. Much better way to keep one's sanity if you can do it.

I offer you my best wishes and good luck in the future.
Thanks, John. I second what you said.  Yes, I can learn the old technology and help them. Thanks for saying that.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)
Most Valuable Expert 2012
Expert of the Year 2018
Commented:
You are most welcome and again -Best Wishes.
Ryan ChongSoftware Team Lead
Commented:
it's ok to work with old technologies, but you must add values into your daily work, provide quality of work and provide suggestions if there's any. the problem with old technologies is sustainability, it depends on the company's direction when and whether to have a plan to adapt for new technologies.

usually you would need hands-on, training or workshop to get yourself into new technologies. so, working environment is really crucial, whether the company gives you chance to learn all these stuffs.

Don't pick a job. Pick a Boss
i do partially agreed to statement above. we usually pick a job, and then realized how the boss is...
we usually pick a job, and then realized how the boss is...

I can't believe my current company allows someone like my boss flourish. Hard to believe that it's 2019 and people still behave that way at work.
Fernando SotoRetired
Distinguished Expert 2017
Commented:
That is great Camillia, much success in your new position.
Thanks, Fernando.
Top Expert 2016
Commented:
I once worked in a place where the manager was abusive.  When we had a mandatory lecture on workplace acceptable rules of conduct, we all thought to ourselves that the manager needed this lecture more than we did. To give you an idea of the turn around in employees, this shop had maybe 50 employees at its peak employment. My employee # was 0972 and after 4 years one of the new hires was employee in the 1300 range. So basically every year we had more than 100% turnover in employees.

A sample scenario was.. We had a 2 person job making insulated panels for doors (Styrofoam clad with aluminum sheeting).. The aluminum came in 24" wide rolls .. the job called for a width of 12 1/4" and various lengths. Not being told that cutting the roll to only 12" was acceptable as the 1/8th missing on both sides would be covered over I cut 2 rolls of aluminum. Time spent 2x what it should have. Normally the company was a stickler to measurements.. I had problems getting the Styrofoam lowered from the plant ceiling to where I could reach it. New forklift operator was behind in some other job and my requirements were put as a lower priority. More time lost..

Gluing the aluminum to the Styrofoam was a 2 person job.. (Normally was part of a team that worked efficiently, Partner was on vacation)
I had to beg another department for a body every time I needed to start the gluing process. (again I had to leave my work area go to the other department, state my request and then wait for the body to show up..  During this time the manager was not available

Long story short, when the manager returned and checked the job's status he was incensed that the job was not completed. He offered to trade his paycheck for my job that he could do it faster.

I knew from my personal experience to just let him vent so I just stood there and listened. A few hours later I then explained to him what the problems were and he accepted my explanation of what the delay was.  Note: My immediate superior was kept informed of my progress or lack of during the time of the managers absence.

After the 2008 recession I found another job with equal pay but a much better work environment.
Just before you leave, you should inform (not complain) HR or your manager's manager, about the abuse and the reasons people leave, maybe on the last day.  Somebody needs to be informed.  Nothing gets done if nobody mentions the problem.
you should inform (not complain) HR or your manager's manager, about the abuse and the reasons people leave

The other two developers wrote in their exit interviews their reasons for leaving.

I'm going to speak with my manager's boss.

@David -- I read three books about dealing with bad managers and even reached out to a professional to help me deal with him. At the end of the third book...I thought...what am I doing to myself.

--------------
Great input and thoughts. I'm sad about my decision but it's the right one.
Trust your instincts.  The more you hone them, the more useful they become.   Your gut is telling you what the right decision for you is.    Your gut doesn't lie.   Your brain however will try hard to trick you (at least mine does).        Also, employment decisions are not permanent.     Worst case scenario is you look for something else.

Good luck with your new position.
Most Valuable Expert 2015
Distinguished Expert 2018
Commented:
I'm sad about my decision but it's the right one.

Indeed, and you acted. Quite a few would just have resigned.

Web Forms may be outdated (and a bit difficult, if you ask me), but at least you work with .Net and/or XAML, and that knowledge has a very broad usage.
Thanks, Gustav.
Chinmay PatelChief Technology Ninja
Distinguished Expert 2018
Commented:
Congratulations on the new Job :)
Thanks, everyone.  I spoke with HR. Sounded like they want to somehow get rid of him but because he's been there 20 yrs and has the business knowledge...they don't know what to do. Their problem now.
Thanks, everyone.  I spoke with HR. Sounded like they want to somehow get rid of him but because he's been there 20 yrs and has the business knowledge...they don't know what to do. Their problem now.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)
Most Valuable Expert 2012
Expert of the Year 2018

Commented:
Thanks for the update!
Jose Gabriel Ortega CastroTop Rated Freelancer on MS Technologies
Awarded 2018
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
When you are going to do some actions against an employee I think it should be taken with gloves, but in this case, is justified since he's not being a leader for his group, he's just being a boss and a bad one...

But yeah indeed is their problem now
he's not being a leader for his group

Leader...that's the keyword. Nicely said.

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