JustinBMak
asked on
Dell Wyse Management Suite v1.4 - Crashes or is SUPER slow!
Hello Folks:
I have an existing Dell Wyse Environment mixed between 5070's and 5040's AIO.
I am using Dell's Wyse Management Studio v1.4 running in a VM on Server 2012.
So now down to the problem. The Dell Wyse Management Suite crashes every time the server gets rebooted or shut down. Well twice it has crashed and now this third time, (fresh install) it will work but then I properly through Windows shut down the OS and brought it back up. It is working, luckily, but suppppppper slow. Takes about 2 minutes to go between groups and/or settings in that group.
1.) Does anyone know HOW to take a back up copy of the DB?
2.) Does anyone know WHY after a fresh install then a shutdown (a perfect shutdown through Windows) now the Dell Wyse Management Suite is super slow?
A.) I cannot find any help on the web or through EE
B.) Dell won't help me, even though the software is FREE up to 10k devices which I only have about 150 devices and/or until I purchased the 10K users to go to the 'Pro' version.
I am lost and in dyer need of help. This is the 3rd time I am reinstalling the Dell Wyse Management Suite and walking around a 160k building re-validating the keys and recreating the policies!
I have an existing Dell Wyse Environment mixed between 5070's and 5040's AIO.
I am using Dell's Wyse Management Studio v1.4 running in a VM on Server 2012.
So now down to the problem. The Dell Wyse Management Suite crashes every time the server gets rebooted or shut down. Well twice it has crashed and now this third time, (fresh install) it will work but then I properly through Windows shut down the OS and brought it back up. It is working, luckily, but suppppppper slow. Takes about 2 minutes to go between groups and/or settings in that group.
1.) Does anyone know HOW to take a back up copy of the DB?
2.) Does anyone know WHY after a fresh install then a shutdown (a perfect shutdown through Windows) now the Dell Wyse Management Suite is super slow?
A.) I cannot find any help on the web or through EE
B.) Dell won't help me, even though the software is FREE up to 10k devices which I only have about 150 devices and/or until I purchased the 10K users to go to the 'Pro' version.
I am lost and in dyer need of help. This is the 3rd time I am reinstalling the Dell Wyse Management Suite and walking around a 160k building re-validating the keys and recreating the policies!
If you want support one way to get it is to buy one more thin client and add pro support to it.
ASKER
The DB end is 'Mongo' (I think) and I purchased the Dell Wyse Thin Clients when I did a 'bundle' deal with Dell and purchasing 3 servers at that time as well.
In regards to my issue, I had NO choice however to rebuild my Wyse Management Server Suite. I trouble shoot by installing it on 2 other machines and did the reboot, shutdown a couple of times and Windows updates and on my two test systems it came back online w/o issues every single time. So I have narrowed it down to an isolated issue with that particular copy of Windows itself, maybe an update or something and it was becoming more of a 'react' moment more than anything.
I would love to get 'Pro Support' for the Dell Wyse Management Studio however they are informing me that there is some god awful minimum amount of Thin Clients (I think 1,000 or more) that I must purchase in order to get it. I will never had any where near that number and looking at having around a total of 150 to 200 clients maximum in the company. So it would, other than the cost, would be a big waste of money vs continuing to do research and ask more and more people of a way to back up the existing DB, etc.
John, I am curious and would like to ask why are you asking the reasoning in me purchasing Dell Wyse Terminals vs what ever brand you have in mind?
In regards to my issue, I had NO choice however to rebuild my Wyse Management Server Suite. I trouble shoot by installing it on 2 other machines and did the reboot, shutdown a couple of times and Windows updates and on my two test systems it came back online w/o issues every single time. So I have narrowed it down to an isolated issue with that particular copy of Windows itself, maybe an update or something and it was becoming more of a 'react' moment more than anything.
I would love to get 'Pro Support' for the Dell Wyse Management Studio however they are informing me that there is some god awful minimum amount of Thin Clients (I think 1,000 or more) that I must purchase in order to get it. I will never had any where near that number and looking at having around a total of 150 to 200 clients maximum in the company. So it would, other than the cost, would be a big waste of money vs continuing to do research and ask more and more people of a way to back up the existing DB, etc.
John, I am curious and would like to ask why are you asking the reasoning in me purchasing Dell Wyse Terminals vs what ever brand you have in mind?
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Different use case.
A Windows based thin client has an enhanced write filter, so nothing is kept post-reboot.
They are low energy - work out the total cost of ownership over the much longer lifetime of a thin client due to no moving parts, cooler, etc.
They take up much less space.
They are much simpler to manage - from sending out configurations to whole OS's. You require additional licenses for e.g. SCCM to get similar management capabilities.
You don't necessarily require AV because of the above write filter.
Your cheap desktop actually often works out more expensive in the longer run.
Consider ThinOS based devices and you get more benefits:
Fast boot (usually seconds)
A cut-down hardened Linux based OS with a much lower attack footprint
Even smaller, lower energy, footprint
Just as easy to manage from the same consoles (and WMS is MUCH better than the old WDM)
A Windows based thin client has an enhanced write filter, so nothing is kept post-reboot.
They are low energy - work out the total cost of ownership over the much longer lifetime of a thin client due to no moving parts, cooler, etc.
They take up much less space.
They are much simpler to manage - from sending out configurations to whole OS's. You require additional licenses for e.g. SCCM to get similar management capabilities.
You don't necessarily require AV because of the above write filter.
Your cheap desktop actually often works out more expensive in the longer run.
Consider ThinOS based devices and you get more benefits:
Fast boot (usually seconds)
A cut-down hardened Linux based OS with a much lower attack footprint
Even smaller, lower energy, footprint
Just as easy to manage from the same consoles (and WMS is MUCH better than the old WDM)
@Tony all these are valid points but ...a small analysis
A Windows based thin client has an enhanced write filter, so nothing is kept post-reboot.
If you allow non power users you will have exactly the same behavior...just make it autologin and launch directly the RDP
They are low energy - work out the total cost of ownership over the much longer lifetime of a thin client due to no moving parts, cooler, etc.
A fully fledged machine while may carry a much more energy hungry CPU on paper...on actual use its not that dramatic and you don't get any "problems" like the above
The only moving part is the cooler and i don't see much complains on that overall...everything is fixed (MB,SSD,PSU)
They take up much less space.
This is not true...i am writing this response from my minimalist i3 7.0"
W X 7.2" D X 1.4" H
179mm W X 182mm D X 34.5mm H
They are much simpler to manage - from sending out configurations to whole OS's. You require additional licenses for e.g. SCCM to get similar management capabilities.
This holds true but if you have/want a proper infrastructure probably there a ton of free options for managing...in the end you can setup a SAMBA domain and handle pretty much everything
You don't necessarily require AV because of the above write filter.
Locking down the user should be enough in most cases...after all even with the ransomware outbreak the end "advise" was to minimize permissions and lock down user rights...don't forget the schema i proposed...the user directly logins to RDP
Your cheap desktop actually often works out more expensive in the longer run.
Minus the electricity which is not that easy to calculate... (for example in the winter a power hungrier will rise the ambient temperature so....less heating expense...on the contrary in the summer you have to calculate the load in A/C)
Consider ThinOS based devices and you get more benefits:
You will have a Win 10 license...i am not sure about the benefits
Fast boot (usually seconds)
SSD with a cost around $15-$20 can do the same for just about any machine from the Core2Duo
A cut-down hardened Linux based OS with a much lower attack footprint
You are not restricted in using any OS...you have the power...the storage....so no waiting for the Vendor when to decide to release a new image.
Even smaller, lower energy, footprint
It need quite some calculations
Just as easy to manage from the same consoles (and WMS is MUCH better than the old WDM)
I mentioned before that there are solutions...
Overall ...what they have gained from electricity and TCO and the rest probably they are loosing it as we speak due to the problem managing...just count the lost workhours
A Windows based thin client has an enhanced write filter, so nothing is kept post-reboot.
If you allow non power users you will have exactly the same behavior...just make it autologin and launch directly the RDP
They are low energy - work out the total cost of ownership over the much longer lifetime of a thin client due to no moving parts, cooler, etc.
A fully fledged machine while may carry a much more energy hungry CPU on paper...on actual use its not that dramatic and you don't get any "problems" like the above
The only moving part is the cooler and i don't see much complains on that overall...everything is fixed (MB,SSD,PSU)
They take up much less space.
This is not true...i am writing this response from my minimalist i3 7.0"
W X 7.2" D X 1.4" H
179mm W X 182mm D X 34.5mm H
They are much simpler to manage - from sending out configurations to whole OS's. You require additional licenses for e.g. SCCM to get similar management capabilities.
This holds true but if you have/want a proper infrastructure probably there a ton of free options for managing...in the end you can setup a SAMBA domain and handle pretty much everything
You don't necessarily require AV because of the above write filter.
Locking down the user should be enough in most cases...after all even with the ransomware outbreak the end "advise" was to minimize permissions and lock down user rights...don't forget the schema i proposed...the user directly logins to RDP
Your cheap desktop actually often works out more expensive in the longer run.
Minus the electricity which is not that easy to calculate... (for example in the winter a power hungrier will rise the ambient temperature so....less heating expense...on the contrary in the summer you have to calculate the load in A/C)
Consider ThinOS based devices and you get more benefits:
You will have a Win 10 license...i am not sure about the benefits
Fast boot (usually seconds)
SSD with a cost around $15-$20 can do the same for just about any machine from the Core2Duo
A cut-down hardened Linux based OS with a much lower attack footprint
You are not restricted in using any OS...you have the power...the storage....so no waiting for the Vendor when to decide to release a new image.
Even smaller, lower energy, footprint
It need quite some calculations
Just as easy to manage from the same consoles (and WMS is MUCH better than the old WDM)
I mentioned before that there are solutions...
Overall ...what they have gained from electricity and TCO and the rest probably they are loosing it as we speak due to the problem managing...just count the lost workhours
ASKER
Hello All:
So I went with a Wyse TC because are a manufacturing company (150k sq ft) and so I rolled out AIO (Dell 5040's I think) where space is limited or locations of mounting isn't the best, etc. The temperature in the warehouse can reach as high as 120 degree's during the summer so the less moving parts, the better.
I agree on the RDS thing, I see it's benefits that's for sure. I have folks out in the field (Sales) and as we progress they can use their iPads, iPhones, etc. (BYOD) vs In regards to price, you can pick up a Dell TC for as little as $80 on eBay and up to $450 depending on specs, etc. I run an entire PCoIP environment (not vmware blast) and typically am very pleased with what I receive from sellers on eBay. As a matter of fact, one the sellers sells me my Dell Servers for a 1/3rd of the price vs buying from Dell. I bought 3 Dell 7840XD Servers (I think is the model #) with 2 physical 12 core processors and 1TB of RAM and a Dell BOSS Card with 2 - 256GB M.2 Sticks for I think around $6k/ea.
I was only asking because I was looking at LG's Thin Clients, etc., which seem much cheaper than the Dell Wyse Terminals. I am also looking at the Touch Screen Monitors which I do know will work with the Dell Wyse Terminals, etc.
Once again, thank you all for your comments, suggestions and ideas. I am always looking for improvement in my environment since I am the one that has built it from the ground up.
So I went with a Wyse TC because are a manufacturing company (150k sq ft) and so I rolled out AIO (Dell 5040's I think) where space is limited or locations of mounting isn't the best, etc. The temperature in the warehouse can reach as high as 120 degree's during the summer so the less moving parts, the better.
I agree on the RDS thing, I see it's benefits that's for sure. I have folks out in the field (Sales) and as we progress they can use their iPads, iPhones, etc. (BYOD) vs In regards to price, you can pick up a Dell TC for as little as $80 on eBay and up to $450 depending on specs, etc. I run an entire PCoIP environment (not vmware blast) and typically am very pleased with what I receive from sellers on eBay. As a matter of fact, one the sellers sells me my Dell Servers for a 1/3rd of the price vs buying from Dell. I bought 3 Dell 7840XD Servers (I think is the model #) with 2 physical 12 core processors and 1TB of RAM and a Dell BOSS Card with 2 - 256GB M.2 Sticks for I think around $6k/ea.
I was only asking because I was looking at LG's Thin Clients, etc., which seem much cheaper than the Dell Wyse Terminals. I am also looking at the Touch Screen Monitors which I do know will work with the Dell Wyse Terminals, etc.
Once again, thank you all for your comments, suggestions and ideas. I am always looking for improvement in my environment since I am the one that has built it from the ground up.
Thanks for sharing the info...
I have a small doubt about touch screens in high temperatures...probably you will have issue....but i don't have similar case...
I have a small doubt about touch screens in high temperatures...probably you will have issue....but i don't have similar case...
@Tony all these are valid points but ...a small analysis
If you allow non power users you will have exactly the same behavior...just make it autologin and launch directly the RDP
How do you do this, exactly? Are you suggesting you remove the admin user accounts? How do you then manage/install etc? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges - writes to a thin client are non persistent, regardless of which user applies them, unless the write filter is disabled. There is no such protection on a standard Windows build
Ok - let's say you can do it and run with that. You have a lot of up-front effort to put into the build. That is a cost.
They are low energy - work out the total cost of ownership over the much longer lifetime of a thin client due to no moving parts, cooler, etc.
A fully fledged machine while may carry a much more energy hungry CPU on paper...on actual use its not that dramatic and you don't get any "problems" like the above
Your answer makes no sense, could you expand on it, please?
They take up much less space.
This is not true...i am writing this response from my minimalist i3 7.0"
W X 7.2" D X 1.4" H
179mm W X 182mm D X 34.5mm H
Ok I will concede that point - I was forgetting the SFF devices.
They are much simpler to manage - from sending out configurations to whole OS's. You require additional licenses for e.g. SCCM to get similar management capabilities.
This holds true but if you have/want a proper infrastructure probably there a ton of free options for managing...in the end you can setup a SAMBA domain and handle pretty much everything
How many go into greenfields sites? There will be AD/SAMBA etc, so your last point is superfluous to an extent.
I am not a FOSS expert, so please feel free to educate me (genuine comment) - what free alternative can deploy, patch, manage (e.g. remote control) a Windows 10 device? SCCM does this from a single console, but at a significat cost of licensing and learning.
Any alternatives will require an equally steep learning curve, if there are multiple consoles to build the whole
You don't necessarily require AV because of the above write filter.
Locking down the user should be enough in most cases...after all even with the ransomware outbreak the end "advise" was to minimize permissions and lock down user rights...don't forget the schema i proposed...the user directly logins to RDP
Well you should always lock down permissions to the mininum - that is just best practice, but it doesn't necessarily stop elevated privilege attacks. The write fitler though, mitigates them
Your cheap desktop actually often works out more expensive in the longer run.
Minus the electricity which is not that easy to calculate... (for example in the winter a power hungrier will rise the ambient temperature so....less heating expense...on the contrary in the summer you have to calculate the load in A/C)
Consider ThinOS based devices and you get more benefits:
You will have a Win 10 license...i am not sure about the benefits
Fast boot (usually seconds)
SSD with a cost around $15-$20 can do the same for just about any machine from the Core2Duo
A cut-down hardened Linux based OS with a much lower attack footprint
You are not restricted in using any OS...you have the power...the storage....so no waiting for the Vendor when to decide to release a new image.
Taking those one at a time:
A Win 10 license that is OEM so you can't move it with the machine. It dies with it, the same as the IoT license in a thin client - no benefits at all between one or the other;
ThinOS on a 3010 booted to a login screen in around 8 seconds. No cheap Windows 10 device even with an SSD can match that.
You want to pay an additional cost for the SSD, then for the bracket (call it US$25 per unit for both, say, based on your calculations) + the time to rebuild/reimage + the time to phsyically remove the HDD and install the SSD. These are all a genuine cost in both time and materials.
Not restricted to the vendor - so you're suggesting throwing it out and starting again? I am confused?
Win 10 - you are beholded to MS. At the price point you are talking about, it is most likely a home license, not professional, so you have additional constraints such as having updates forced on you
Win 10 IoT doesn't get the same treatment as it meant to be stable, due to being in, for example, points of sales equipment. It is also supported for much, much longer
Throw it out and start again with what? Linux? With all the above overheads and possible retraining etc?
Even smaller, lower energy, footprint
It need quite some calculations
Just as easy to manage from the same consoles (and WMS is MUCH better than the old WDM)
I mentioned before that there are solutions...
Overall ...what they have gained from electricity and TCO and the rest probably they are loosing it as we speak due to the problem managing...just count the lost workhours
No - you are ignoring the costs in time and materials on top of just the electricity.
You can't lock down Windows Home the same as IoT - there's no kiosk mode.
I've worked on estates with 10+ year old thin clients and only the rest of the infrastructure being updated caused them to be retired.
In a nutshell if you want to consider the TCO you need to do just that - TOTAL. man-hours, materials, the lot - not just the up front purchase cost and electricity.
If you allow non power users you will have exactly the same behavior...just make it autologin and launch directly the RDP
How do you do this, exactly? Are you suggesting you remove the admin user accounts? How do you then manage/install etc? Again, you are comparing apples with oranges - writes to a thin client are non persistent, regardless of which user applies them, unless the write filter is disabled. There is no such protection on a standard Windows build
Ok - let's say you can do it and run with that. You have a lot of up-front effort to put into the build. That is a cost.
They are low energy - work out the total cost of ownership over the much longer lifetime of a thin client due to no moving parts, cooler, etc.
A fully fledged machine while may carry a much more energy hungry CPU on paper...on actual use its not that dramatic and you don't get any "problems" like the above
Your answer makes no sense, could you expand on it, please?
They take up much less space.
This is not true...i am writing this response from my minimalist i3 7.0"
W X 7.2" D X 1.4" H
179mm W X 182mm D X 34.5mm H
Ok I will concede that point - I was forgetting the SFF devices.
They are much simpler to manage - from sending out configurations to whole OS's. You require additional licenses for e.g. SCCM to get similar management capabilities.
This holds true but if you have/want a proper infrastructure probably there a ton of free options for managing...in the end you can setup a SAMBA domain and handle pretty much everything
How many go into greenfields sites? There will be AD/SAMBA etc, so your last point is superfluous to an extent.
I am not a FOSS expert, so please feel free to educate me (genuine comment) - what free alternative can deploy, patch, manage (e.g. remote control) a Windows 10 device? SCCM does this from a single console, but at a significat cost of licensing and learning.
Any alternatives will require an equally steep learning curve, if there are multiple consoles to build the whole
You don't necessarily require AV because of the above write filter.
Locking down the user should be enough in most cases...after all even with the ransomware outbreak the end "advise" was to minimize permissions and lock down user rights...don't forget the schema i proposed...the user directly logins to RDP
Well you should always lock down permissions to the mininum - that is just best practice, but it doesn't necessarily stop elevated privilege attacks. The write fitler though, mitigates them
Your cheap desktop actually often works out more expensive in the longer run.
Minus the electricity which is not that easy to calculate... (for example in the winter a power hungrier will rise the ambient temperature so....less heating expense...on the contrary in the summer you have to calculate the load in A/C)
Consider ThinOS based devices and you get more benefits:
You will have a Win 10 license...i am not sure about the benefits
Fast boot (usually seconds)
SSD with a cost around $15-$20 can do the same for just about any machine from the Core2Duo
A cut-down hardened Linux based OS with a much lower attack footprint
You are not restricted in using any OS...you have the power...the storage....so no waiting for the Vendor when to decide to release a new image.
Taking those one at a time:
A Win 10 license that is OEM so you can't move it with the machine. It dies with it, the same as the IoT license in a thin client - no benefits at all between one or the other;
ThinOS on a 3010 booted to a login screen in around 8 seconds. No cheap Windows 10 device even with an SSD can match that.
You want to pay an additional cost for the SSD, then for the bracket (call it US$25 per unit for both, say, based on your calculations) + the time to rebuild/reimage + the time to phsyically remove the HDD and install the SSD. These are all a genuine cost in both time and materials.
Not restricted to the vendor - so you're suggesting throwing it out and starting again? I am confused?
Win 10 - you are beholded to MS. At the price point you are talking about, it is most likely a home license, not professional, so you have additional constraints such as having updates forced on you
Win 10 IoT doesn't get the same treatment as it meant to be stable, due to being in, for example, points of sales equipment. It is also supported for much, much longer
Throw it out and start again with what? Linux? With all the above overheads and possible retraining etc?
Even smaller, lower energy, footprint
It need quite some calculations
Just as easy to manage from the same consoles (and WMS is MUCH better than the old WDM)
I mentioned before that there are solutions...
Overall ...what they have gained from electricity and TCO and the rest probably they are loosing it as we speak due to the problem managing...just count the lost workhours
No - you are ignoring the costs in time and materials on top of just the electricity.
You can't lock down Windows Home the same as IoT - there's no kiosk mode.
I've worked on estates with 10+ year old thin clients and only the rest of the infrastructure being updated caused them to be retired.
In a nutshell if you want to consider the TCO you need to do just that - TOTAL. man-hours, materials, the lot - not just the up front purchase cost and electricity.
Hi Justin - I'd definitely get hold of a ThinOS variant to have a play with.
I haven't used other vendors' for a while - since before they were snapped up (HP bought Neoware etc), but you can usually get them to send you a trial device or two as well.
I am a huge fan of Wyse (even under Dell) though - they just work, they are easy to manage and they last for a long time, on the whole.
I haven't used other vendors' for a while - since before they were snapped up (HP bought Neoware etc), but you can usually get them to send you a trial device or two as well.
I am a huge fan of Wyse (even under Dell) though - they just work, they are easy to manage and they last for a long time, on the whole.
@Tony your reply is a bit confusing but i will try to reply...your bold is a bit aggresive by the way ... :)
For everything software related there are solutions..
Patch Deployment : https://www.dnsstuff.com/free-patch-management-software
IT Asset :https://www.dnsstuff.com/it-asset-management-software
As for licensing and the rest..the difference between Win10Pro & Home is usuall a few bucks and a good seller..
Not to mention the lack of any restrictions on what to install and how.
I don't say that they are turn key solutions unless some money are spend but is always easier to work on an "open" environment than on that of a "closed" one...
About the hardware...CPUs are rated about 35-65W usually ...given the fact that no actuall processing power is needed then it will stay pretty much idle so it gets low enough...around 15-20W
The only weak point is the cooler.....
I am NOT suggesting throwing everything and start from scratch (although counting down the lost hours (man,production,frustratio
For everything software related there are solutions..
Patch Deployment : https://www.dnsstuff.com/free-patch-management-software
IT Asset :https://www.dnsstuff.com/it-asset-management-software
As for licensing and the rest..the difference between Win10Pro & Home is usuall a few bucks and a good seller..
Not to mention the lack of any restrictions on what to install and how.
I don't say that they are turn key solutions unless some money are spend but is always easier to work on an "open" environment than on that of a "closed" one...
About the hardware...CPUs are rated about 35-65W usually ...given the fact that no actuall processing power is needed then it will stay pretty much idle so it gets low enough...around 15-20W
The only weak point is the cooler.....
I am NOT suggesting throwing everything and start from scratch (although counting down the lost hours (man,production,frustratio
Which part of my reply is confusing?
The bold was to help to differentiate the thread - your response was very long and quite rambling. I apologise that you felt it was aggressive.
It isn't a few dollars for a Pro license though, is it? You cannot upgrade an OEM Home license to a Pro license - it's buying a full license at around US$200 retail. Yes, I know they can be found cheaper, but, let's call it even half that - US$100.
You now have around US$25 for the SSD, US$100 (optimistically) for a Pro license so your US$115 machine is now up to closer to US$240
And then there's the time to build again.
The lack of the write filter.
The additional management overhead.
Will the PC last the 7+ years the Thin Clients will?
Even if you wiped the machines and used a Linux-based Thin Client image, you still have the time and costs.
Trust me - I've worked with Citrix/Thin Client based solutions since 1995. I've seen every type of thin client going at one point or another and I can tell you that a custom built, Wyse-type device will almost always trump any kind of homebrew bodged solution that is thrown together, just on costs of the time it takes to feed and water the homebrew solution.
It all adds up.
it also isn't entirely factual to say there is no client-side processing. Flash rendering? Printing?
The bold was to help to differentiate the thread - your response was very long and quite rambling. I apologise that you felt it was aggressive.
It isn't a few dollars for a Pro license though, is it? You cannot upgrade an OEM Home license to a Pro license - it's buying a full license at around US$200 retail. Yes, I know they can be found cheaper, but, let's call it even half that - US$100.
You now have around US$25 for the SSD, US$100 (optimistically) for a Pro license so your US$115 machine is now up to closer to US$240
And then there's the time to build again.
The lack of the write filter.
The additional management overhead.
Will the PC last the 7+ years the Thin Clients will?
Even if you wiped the machines and used a Linux-based Thin Client image, you still have the time and costs.
Trust me - I've worked with Citrix/Thin Client based solutions since 1995. I've seen every type of thin client going at one point or another and I can tell you that a custom built, Wyse-type device will almost always trump any kind of homebrew bodged solution that is thrown together, just on costs of the time it takes to feed and water the homebrew solution.
It all adds up.
it also isn't entirely factual to say there is no client-side processing. Flash rendering? Printing?
ASKER
Hello All:
I would like to add that you cannot use Windows 10 Pro in a VDI environment! I would know, it took me 3 months to get the licensing straight with Dell/Microsoft because Dell sold me 60 'Upgrade' licenses of Windows 10 Pro.
What saved my @$$ with Microsoft on licensing was that Dell sold me, in addition to the 'Windows 10 Pro' licenses (60) was that they sold me Microsoft's VDI package with it (all 60). That is what gives me almost the same rights as having SA (Software Assurance) except I can't call Microsoft directly. I have to call Dell and Dell has to place a ticket with Microsoft if I am having issues, etc.
The ONLY 2 licenses that allows you to LEGALLY virtualize MS Windows 10 is either Windows 10 Pro with a VDI license attached to it, like my environment, or cloud based Windows 10 Enterprise licensed through Microsoft Office365. Now I have attempted licensing the Windows 10 Enterprise through MS Office365 but I was unsuccessful getting it to activate through my KMS Server, etc.
After several hours on the phone with Microsoft AND Dell, they took my VLK key (Volume Licensing Key) and converted it for KMS. You cannot use it through Active Directory, (AD Activation) even though that is where MS is going with their licensing system.
I just wanted to comment on the Microsoft 'Retail' version of Windows 10 because it's not 'legal' per MS - NOT my personal experience.
I would like to add that you cannot use Windows 10 Pro in a VDI environment! I would know, it took me 3 months to get the licensing straight with Dell/Microsoft because Dell sold me 60 'Upgrade' licenses of Windows 10 Pro.
What saved my @$$ with Microsoft on licensing was that Dell sold me, in addition to the 'Windows 10 Pro' licenses (60) was that they sold me Microsoft's VDI package with it (all 60). That is what gives me almost the same rights as having SA (Software Assurance) except I can't call Microsoft directly. I have to call Dell and Dell has to place a ticket with Microsoft if I am having issues, etc.
The ONLY 2 licenses that allows you to LEGALLY virtualize MS Windows 10 is either Windows 10 Pro with a VDI license attached to it, like my environment, or cloud based Windows 10 Enterprise licensed through Microsoft Office365. Now I have attempted licensing the Windows 10 Enterprise through MS Office365 but I was unsuccessful getting it to activate through my KMS Server, etc.
After several hours on the phone with Microsoft AND Dell, they took my VLK key (Volume Licensing Key) and converted it for KMS. You cannot use it through Active Directory, (AD Activation) even though that is where MS is going with their licensing system.
I just wanted to comment on the Microsoft 'Retail' version of Windows 10 because it's not 'legal' per MS - NOT my personal experience.
@John - I think we're at crossed purposes mate. I am not arguing it can't be done, nor that it can be done for a lower initial cost, although I actually suggest not... (see my link below)
What I am saying is that you have to look at the longer term. Over the life of the PC vs Thin Client, a TC will usually win hands down.
For balance, my first search brings back this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Wyse-3010-Thin-Cloud-Client-Desktop-/302873457794
I can get three of them, plus the free management software for every one of those Lenovo's
And again...before TCO kicks in.
What I am saying is that you have to look at the longer term. Over the life of the PC vs Thin Client, a TC will usually win hands down.
For balance, my first search brings back this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Wyse-3010-Thin-Cloud-Client-Desktop-/302873457794
I can get three of them, plus the free management software for every one of those Lenovo's
And again...before TCO kicks in.
Ok...by the way : Max Operating Temperature95 °F ... :)
That is the maximum ambient temperature of the air around it... how many offices operate at 95F?
The author mentioned that is factory with temperatures up to 120F
https://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-thinkcentre-m73-tiny-core-i5-4570t-2-9-ghz-4-gb-500-gb-us-10ax0044us/
Max operating temperature? 95F
This will go on forever. I have argued your misconceptions with evidence. I won't engage any further take care
Max operating temperature? 95F
This will go on forever. I have argued your misconceptions with evidence. I won't engage any further take care
ASKER
Hello Both:
I apologize you two weren't coming to an agreement on the topics that were discussed but I would like to tell you both that it was very informative in general to read and I agree with you both. I think, depending on the environment variables, location, cost, etc. that I can see using both a cheap refurbish Desktop vs a TC and the other way around can be useful.
Once again I agree with you both. I do believe that the TCO on the TC's may be slighter higher but really one of a few reasons why I went to a TC vs a Desktop using RDS is because we have a very high churn rate (employee's coming and going in such a fast rate) that the time it takes me to reinstall Windows to remove 'issues' including but not limited to the Office365 licensing attached to the old person, etc. because I can't legally run Office through TS (terminal services) w/o a higher cost licensing OR purchasing Office directly. My time is obviously has a cost since we are a 130 person / 68 Injection/Compression molding facility and I'm the only local support for all. So I have a base Windows image that when an employee leaves the company I just copy their data out of the VM - blow away the VM and VMWare see's the missing image and re-creates a new VM automatically and fire's it up and attached it to AD within 10 minutes max.
So my set up time went from 2 hours or so down to less than 15 minutes if you want to include the entitlement of the new user, etc. in VMWare Horizon. I do also use RDS (Farm in Horizon) for some of our 'standard' applications using 'ThinApp' in VMWare and then I 'push' the Apps down to the user/users. Again, each person/company has their own setup / rules and I'm just sharing the thought process of why I went with a ThinClient vs an older i3, etc.
Once again I sincerely appreciates your inputs from both of you and feedback through the question. I hope you both the best and look forward in working with you both again in the future!
I apologize you two weren't coming to an agreement on the topics that were discussed but I would like to tell you both that it was very informative in general to read and I agree with you both. I think, depending on the environment variables, location, cost, etc. that I can see using both a cheap refurbish Desktop vs a TC and the other way around can be useful.
Once again I agree with you both. I do believe that the TCO on the TC's may be slighter higher but really one of a few reasons why I went to a TC vs a Desktop using RDS is because we have a very high churn rate (employee's coming and going in such a fast rate) that the time it takes me to reinstall Windows to remove 'issues' including but not limited to the Office365 licensing attached to the old person, etc. because I can't legally run Office through TS (terminal services) w/o a higher cost licensing OR purchasing Office directly. My time is obviously has a cost since we are a 130 person / 68 Injection/Compression molding facility and I'm the only local support for all. So I have a base Windows image that when an employee leaves the company I just copy their data out of the VM - blow away the VM and VMWare see's the missing image and re-creates a new VM automatically and fire's it up and attached it to AD within 10 minutes max.
So my set up time went from 2 hours or so down to less than 15 minutes if you want to include the entitlement of the new user, etc. in VMWare Horizon. I do also use RDS (Farm in Horizon) for some of our 'standard' applications using 'ThinApp' in VMWare and then I 'push' the Apps down to the user/users. Again, each person/company has their own setup / rules and I'm just sharing the thought process of why I went with a ThinClient vs an older i3, etc.
Once again I sincerely appreciates your inputs from both of you and feedback through the question. I hope you both the best and look forward in working with you both again in the future!
You have reported issue within 1 day another user reported severe problems with her Device Management Suite (HP)
Makes me curious....
Would it be too much (sry NO Experience on Thin Client) to ask why you got those Thin Clients in the 1st place ?
As for the DB ..judging by the other issue...is hosted in some Database engine...MsSQL or something else..so a backup at first would be easy as logging with a matching Management solution (SQL Server Management Studio ? ) and probably something like right click the database backup