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Jason Johanknecht
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Windows 10 slow performance

Client PC is running Dragon Naturally speaking, Foxit Pro PDF, Office 365, Norton Security, and several web page tabs daily.  He was using a MX Master Logitech mouse which was hanging up very often, and causing the PC to freeze for several minutes.  Removed it and all software and the freeze ups have stopped, and the mouse cursor jitters have stopped.  The computer is still running poorly with Dragon especially.  Computer has been like this since day 1 he reports.  i7 (8th Gen I believe)/ 16GB / 2TB NVME SSD.  Handles are around 110-115k most of the day, which I think is part of the problem.  PC runs great when handles below 100K.  Not much else for software he doesn't require.  Dragon and Outlook are the top usage on this PC.
Windows 10SoftwareMicrosoft OfficePDFMicrosoft 365

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Jason Johanknecht

8/22/2022 - Mon
McKnife

Please talk numbers, so one could compare.

What action is taking how long (measured)?
What resource consumption (disk IO, CPU, RAM) do you see at the same time in resmon?
Also in resmon: what processes do take away most of these resources?
strivoli

I don't think Handles are to blame since I have 130K and it is working VERY well.
SSD are FAST but I would have a look at the "Disk Queue Length" value in any case.
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
all resources are typically very low except handles.  I am seeing a lot of systems start to slow at 120k and unstable around 130k (Removing unused software is always the corrective action).  The numbers you are asking about don't very from the times it is exceptionally fast, from frustratingly slow.  Of course I have limited evaluation, as I am not the end user.  Next week I will be checking the system again, so please send as many thoughts as possible.   Any thoughts on software to collect a list of handles I can sort in CSV or spread sheet formats?  Process explorer makes a text file, and I cannot sort the handles.  Have run many tests on the SSD and get over 2,500MBps read and unsure on write but it was very good.  Latency and disk queue are tiny.  Acronis True Image Home 2020 I forgot to mention as the backup.  It takes longer to backup the image over usb 3.1c to SSD 512GB (2HRs), than to 5400RPM USB 3.0 (1HR 45Min).  The backup I believe was 360GB.  Drive tests on the 3.1c drive are 700MBps+ compared to 150MBps at the start of the 5400RPM drive.  Not sure if this software is to blame, as the systems we are having issues with 130k handles becoming unstable.... All run True Image Home 2020.
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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Systems were all unstable today and running at or over 130K handles.  SSD disk queue max is 0.001.  Processes 270, Threads is around 3400.
Dragon Naturally speaking will not even start the microphone currently.  Restart will fix this for an hour to a few hours.  Computer is off every night.
McKnife

If you look at my questions, you should be able to answer them.
nobus

if you disconnect all external devices - does it speed up ?
test also with internet disconnected
what isresource monitor showing for disk and ram, as asked by McKnife? you can post a screenshot
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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
CPU is always below 30%, Disk is always below 10%, No process is hogging anything.  System handles is always above 5K.  We removed Google Chrome which was the largest background consumption.  No difference in the system.  I will be collecting more information shortly.
nobus

you did not answer this :
if you disconnect all external devices - does it speed up ?
test also with internet disconnected
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
No it does NOT speed up.  Even tried new keyboard & mouse with nothing else connected.  I will have him double check for USB printers.
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McKnife

I am not giving up...not yet.
Look, I will show you how I hoped you would be able to answer
--
What action is taking how long (measured)?
The Dragon software is slow. To give you an idea, I speak 20 words in about 5 seconds but the software will need about 20 seconds to convert those to text

What resource consumption (disk IO, CPU, RAM) do you see at the same time in resmon?
Also in resmon: what processes do take away most of these resources?
While the slowness in Dragon is happeinng, I could observe that dragon.exe takes 20% cpu-load most of the time (I have 4 cpu cores). After text conversion is done and dragon is idling, dragon.exe goes back to 1-2% of CPU load and the rest of the processes make up less than 10% in total, chrome.exe has mostly 5-7% while doing nothing with it. As for RAM consumption of these... [ I think you get the idea, Jason]
--
Without you being precise like that, we won't be able to help you.
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Today I am seeing thrashing very consistently on the SSD every other second.  The CPU is showing Windows Event log as consuming 24%.  In the event log is Dragon event logging 100's per second!  

PID: 17256
Max reconnections, service does not respond. Switching to file log.

The SSD is spiking from <10Kbps to 10Mbps regularly.  Handles are at 130k.  CPU shows 40%/RAM 45%/Disk 0%.  Dragon is not functioning.
I will research this new find, but please add to this discussion.  Dragon is and always has been the top priority and where the end user see's the biggest problem.
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Soon after seeing this the event log changes to:  Deleted Event
The description for Event ID 0 from source  cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted. You can install or repair the component on the local computer.

If the event originated on another computer, the display information had to be saved with the event.

The following information was included with the event:


The handle is invalid
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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
These events continue to happen even with all Dragon tasks stopped.  No Dragon services are running.  But these events continue to overflow the Windows app logs.  (20MB file size)
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Outlook is the PID 17256.
McKnife

Ask dragon support. Re-install Dragon.
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William Peck
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Dragon has been reinstalled multiple times.  Dragon support has worked on this since day 1 (over a year ago started), and they have no idea.  They looked at a couple of weeks ago, and still no idea.
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Passing this new information onto Dragon next week Tuesday.  The client is out of the office until then.
nobus

what SSD brand do you have?  run the diagnostic on it, if it is samsung, use it's magician software to know it's health : https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools/
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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
It is Samsung PM981 NVMe 2TB.  However the Samsung software doesn't support this model line.  Same thing in all of the Dell computers that came with Samsung NVMe drives.  SMART shows no problems.  Benchmark attached.
20200318_172528.jpg
nobus

look if you find here what you need :  https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/support/faqs/
or contact samsung
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Not sure what you are thinking.  That link was of no help.
Samsung had already confirmed that OEM models are not supported by the Magician software.
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nobus

i thought you could find more info there, but if not, sorry
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
I believe we have narrowed this down to:
   Practice Manager
   Outlook 2019
   Dragon Naturally Speaking

Tech support is very slow during this COVID-19 work from home times.  We hope to get more answers soon.
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Hopefully getting back on this project within the next week.  Any new ideas?
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nobus

since it was slow from day 1 i would reinstall all software - after having a backup up drive image
then i would update the bios and drivers to the latest
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Computer was not exhibiting any problems during testing this week, but end user says it still comes and goes.  We are considering replacing the SSD.
nobus

did you try reinstalling  a fresh OS?  it may save you time in troubleshooting
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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
No, because it took a full day (Including travel time) to install all of his software and transfer his data.  The image (Acronis True Image) is of entire system, not an OS recovery image.  
nobus

>>  The image (Acronis True Image) is of entire system, not an OS recovery image.     <<  you mean it is a file backup, aka normal backup?
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
No.  It is an image of the drive (All partitions) on a daily basis.
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nobus

oh - you mean it is an image backup of a DATA drive, not OS drive ?
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
No.  It is an image of everything, including the OS.  Literally an image file, not a data backup file.  I can restore the file to a blank hard drive, reboot, and the OS loads with all the programs and user profiles.  Takes 20 minutes to restore an entire HDD.
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Your help has saved me hundreds of hours of internet surfing.
fblack61
nobus

well - i admit that you can make an image of the os with some tools - but most take the whole disk - OS and data
so maybe i did not understand you correct..
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Yes, the entire disk (HDD).
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
nobus

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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
I use most of those already, but never heard of ssd life.  I will check that one out.  Always looking for tips on ssd testing.
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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Just kicking the dust off this old question...  Reinstall of Dragon by Nuance tech support on multiple occasions and creating new audio profiles is not the issue, as it doesn't help at all.  Find no performance problems with the SSD using any utilities mentioned or known.  The client is considering cloning to a new Samsung Pro NVMe 1TB.
nobus

>>  The client is considering cloning to a new Samsung Pro NVMe 1TB   <<  i fear that will copy over your problem...
better backup and do a fresh install
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Very possibly.  The problem has been there since day 1 of this new computer.  And similar problems on the old computer.  It seems like it should be a software problem, but Nuance cannot figure it out.
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nobus

let him test with another user account
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
New user account did nothing to help the problem.

nobus

was the old pc imaged to the new one? or was it a fresh install?
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Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
Fresh install

nobus

ok, and were all drivers installed? what system or mobo model, is it?
Jason Johanknecht

ASKER
The client company has not survived COVID shutdowns, and will be closing their doors at year end.  
No actual solution was ever found, but the SSD was not replaced as was being discussed.
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