Bert2005
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Do I have to buy retail of a network and server store wants to add hard drives?
OK, this isn't really about how to do something or how it could be done better. I have a question about if you are upgrading your server and adding two large SSD drives in a RAID1 or two large M.2 NVMe drives in a RAID and you need help moving the VMs and data, etc. Let's say they can do it easily.
If I take it to their place, and they say, "We recommend these two SSD drives, there would be a markup since they would sell it retail. Am I better off upgrading those first? Or can I just buy those myself and install the RAID arrays before they actually do the work?
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ASKER
Thanks Andrew and Dr. Klahn.
Dell controllers work fine with generic 3rd party disks, they should be enterprise and not consumer though as there's no TRIM behind a RAID controller.
Enterprise drives are a must as they have built in Power Loss Protection. Consumer drives lose the data in their cache if the power blips or it gets cut. It's the blips that kill as they can be via the inbound A/C current or the power supply.
I've heard RECENT Dell RAID controllers (750 I think) have had problems with third party drives. HP RAID Controllers have LONG been finicky about anything other than HP drives. Lenovo servers have also been known to be finicky about drives (though not quite as bad as HP). They don't HAVE to be, but they want you to pay the premium they get from buying the drives from them. Some consultants I know have resorted to buying servers from SuperMicro as those systems don't have drive requirements. The downside to this (and what you seem to be asking), is that now, if you have a problem, you have multiple vendors to go to to try to get support. This can be a headache when all you need is to get the server running. Saving $500 now only to cost you a day of work because the server's down 2 years later isn't a savings. Be careful when you do things like this.
OEM branded drives tend to have firmware that's been tweaked from the base image to work with the backplanes whose firmware is also tweaked from the base image.
It's one reason to pay attention to those seemingly inexpensive components on auction sites. The firmware may be alien to a generic setup like SuperMicro or the OEM/ODM systems we work with.
It's one reason to pay attention to those seemingly inexpensive components on auction sites. The firmware may be alien to a generic setup like SuperMicro or the OEM/ODM systems we work with.
All Dell do is write the equivalent of "Dell certified" on a SCSI code page, there was one version of controller firmware that refused to work with disks that didn't have that stamp but they removed the restriction due to complaints. They still show as uncertified in OMSA but there's even a flag you can set to stop the them being marked as uncertified.
Buy drives retail or from installer.
Both markup the drives As long as your talking apples to apples and not apples and oranges then it is your choice as to who purchases the drives. Compare service plans i.e. warranty
Let the installer/mover install the drives and do the vm move.
if the drive fails (every drive will fail eventually) and you deal totally with the installer/mover then you have 1 point of contact
to be blunt your administrator should have these skill's as they are really a normal maintenance item.
Both markup the drives As long as your talking apples to apples and not apples and oranges then it is your choice as to who purchases the drives. Compare service plans i.e. warranty
Let the installer/mover install the drives and do the vm move.
if the drive fails (every drive will fail eventually) and you deal totally with the installer/mover then you have 1 point of contact
to be blunt your administrator should have these skill's as they are really a normal maintenance item.
What is the hardware that we are talking about. Does your hardware have hot-swap drives. Or there is a need to poweroff open it up to add components?
Not sure your reference to M.2 nvme as they are commonly installed into the system, not hot-swap. If you use a Sara/sas adapter to connect an nvme as a storage, you would not benefit from the nvme' higher pergormance/data throughput.
On a hot-swap environment, storage replacement/addition is done while the system remains operational.
The vendor provider management tool can be used to configure how the new storage is to be used.
Options vary, from lights out management. Ilom, lom, idrac, etc.
Ipmi tools.
Not sure your reference to M.2 nvme as they are commonly installed into the system, not hot-swap. If you use a Sara/sas adapter to connect an nvme as a storage, you would not benefit from the nvme' higher pergormance/data throughput.
On a hot-swap environment, storage replacement/addition is done while the system remains operational.
The vendor provider management tool can be used to configure how the new storage is to be used.
Options vary, from lights out management. Ilom, lom, idrac, etc.
Ipmi tools.
ASKER
Hi arnold,
Thanks. It is hot swap I believe. I always use that. Yes, I know the cards are in the server and not in the slots for the drives. It just may be cheaper to go with the less expensive SSDs drives that go in the bays.
Thanks. It is hot swap I believe. I always use that. Yes, I know the cards are in the server and not in the slots for the drives. It just may be cheaper to go with the less expensive SSDs drives that go in the bays.
Regarding NVMe there are 2.5 inch hot-swap NVMe drives for some servers, but RAID controllers that support NVMe are pretty expensive.
the question is less expensive based on what reliability test?
The RAID setup that you have dictates how many failures the system can tolerate.
Certain times, a RAID can Kick out a drive as failed if it does not receive a timely response.
This could present a problem that might result in data loss.
i.e. you have a Mirror set. Drive 1 and Drive 2.
During operation a read/write was made, to Drive 1, it processed a bit longer than the controller expected, it kicks Drive 1 out of the Array. resending the same command to Drive 2.
months later, system update, power fluctuation, pick your option, the system is rebooted, on boot up, the Drives are rescanned, and Drive 1 having no physical failure is the reference drive the RAID used to load the array.
Everything on the Array that Drive 1 and Drive 2 now reflect the data that existed on Drive1 when it was kicked out.
Much depends on how you calculate cheaper. amount spent at the time, or amount spent over time?
i.e. buy a more expensive device, that lasts three years, or a cheaper one that you have to replace once or twice?
A new more expensive drive can fail within the first year, replacement policy might kick in, and whether you have replacement spares on site.
The RAID setup that you have dictates how many failures the system can tolerate.
Certain times, a RAID can Kick out a drive as failed if it does not receive a timely response.
This could present a problem that might result in data loss.
i.e. you have a Mirror set. Drive 1 and Drive 2.
During operation a read/write was made, to Drive 1, it processed a bit longer than the controller expected, it kicks Drive 1 out of the Array. resending the same command to Drive 2.
months later, system update, power fluctuation, pick your option, the system is rebooted, on boot up, the Drives are rescanned, and Drive 1 having no physical failure is the reference drive the RAID used to load the array.
Everything on the Array that Drive 1 and Drive 2 now reflect the data that existed on Drive1 when it was kicked out.
Much depends on how you calculate cheaper. amount spent at the time, or amount spent over time?
i.e. buy a more expensive device, that lasts three years, or a cheaper one that you have to replace once or twice?
A new more expensive drive can fail within the first year, replacement policy might kick in, and whether you have replacement spares on site.
For on-board "pseudo-RAID" controllers, any drive will work.
For Dell (and presumably other) controllers, only approved drives will work and this may mean flashing special firmware into the drives - e.g., some RAID controllers use 520 byte sectors, not 512. In that case it's simplest to bend with the wind and buy the proper drive, whether from the OEM or used on fleabay.